What Ever Happened To...

[Hyperion]

I recently picked up a CD off Ebay of the first 5 years of N-Scale magazine.  I, being a relative newcome to N-Scale of about 10 years, have found there to be quite a bit of interesting material in there.

One thing I noticed was that there seemed to be a LOT more manufacturers back in the early '90s.  And there are a whole bunch of advertisements for stuff that I'd like to get my hands on now -- particularly modern city structures and some detail parts.  There was like a half-dozen makers of large 'skyscraper' type or other large city buildings.  Now I have a hard time finding any.

Now I understand that the hobby as likely shrank in the past 15 or so years.  But it's my understanding, and I could be very wrong, that N-Scale has actually grown in that time period.  So why the fewer manufacturers? 

One manufacturer that is very prevalent in advertising in those early issues is N-Scale of Nevada, who is the source of my Subject.   What ever happened to them (or him)?  I know they're still around carrying a couple little things like loads.  But it looks like they were all the rage back in the early '90s.  They've got some nice catchy ads.  Some interesting releases and detail parts out the friggin' wazzoo.  Were they just one of the first casualties of the movement towards RTR and less detailing or what?  Their product selection and unusual ad style kinda remind me of BLMA today.

There were a few other smaller companies I also was going to ask about, namely one that made some nice (-looking, in the ads anyways) large city structures.  But I can't recall who they were and I keep the CD at the office (Shhh).

[Nato]

   N Scale of Nevada is still around ,but in a smaller more limited way. John got out of the business for awhile but now he is back iwth some limited items like reruns of phone poles. Do a search engine search for NSN to get more info. I'am sorry I don't have a current UR;. Nate Goodman (Nato).

[DKS]

NSN: http://www.nsn-2.com/home.html

If an N scale manufacturer is missing from this page, please let me know: http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/links_6.htm

[3rdrail]

It's not so much that the hobby has contracted, but the number of "modelers" willing to build kits has contracted substantially. How many of you under 50 crowd took "shop" in elementary or middle school? People don't learn how to work with tools anymore.

Also, in the case of N scale of Nevada, John Coots, the owner, must be in his eighties by now. He shut the business down when he was ill, but his sons now help out some and he's back in business to a very limited extent. The "skyscrapers" were craftsman kits from Walker ?? in Vancouver, BC, and I suspect this was a one-man operation as well. I wish I had bought a couple back then, too.  :-\

[Hyperion]

As I had mentioned, I know NSN is still around, but you look at what they offer today compared to the things they advertised back in the early '90s and it's quite a difference.  It's not even comparable.  What they sell now makes me wonder why they even bother, it's so limited.

And, 3rdrail, it was indeed Walker that I was thinking of.  Great looking kits judging by the ads.  I'd like to have some.

[Mark5]

Well the crappy models that NSN offered retro frames for are gone (thankfully!).

I've been messing in N scale for nearly 40 years and companies just seem to come and go. Lots of new companies out there that weren't around in the 90s too:

Bluford Shops, Trainworx as a manufacturer, Lifelike/Walthers now is a "serious" loco maker (as opposed to in the 1990s), lots of new structure makers out there, others I can't think of off hand ...

Detail parts remain a problem, possibly even more so now that Sunrise exited stage left.

All but a few manufacturers are small proprietorships and when the old man gets old, the places shut down (or in some cases, when they lose their lease/lose too much money, etc).

[Denver Road Doug]

the number of "modelers" willing to build kits has contracted substantially.

I'm wondering what data you have to support this?  I'm not necessarily disputing it, but I was curious how you arrived at your number or your guestimation.

Obviously, people state this all the time but I'm having trouble finding evidence of this.  Here's what I've found:
-There are a larger number of quality RTR models available.  Using basic mathematics and all other things being equal, it is natural to expect that the number of modelers "willing" to build a kit when a RTR model is available would be less.  Substantially less?  I dunno.
-With that, all things AREN'T equal, as RTR models cost more.  Mostly when this "money versus time" arguement pops up, it is exaggerated one way or the other, but I think we're probably talking mild percentages here.  So, say 25 years ago a "modeler's" collection consisted of 40% RTR cars, 30% Built Kits, and 30% Kits still sitting in a box on the to-do list.  Now, it's probably more like 60% RTR, 30% Built Kits, and 10% still in the box.  We place a value on time, and we'll take a RTR model versus another kit that will sit in the closet for a few years waiting to be assembled.  Does that reflect less modeling or less willingness to build a kit?  Note in both examples the number of built kits is 30%.  So I think RTR is replacing the unrealized kits, not the actual modeling being done.
-There are fewer kits available now.  Again, basic common sense says the number of modelers "willing" to build kits that aren't available will absolutely decline.
-Ancillary items have become less available to some extent.  Without easy to find detail parts and more importantly DECALS I think folks are less "willing" to expend the time. 

Since this whole discussion is predicated on statements with little factual backing, I'll throw out that I believe n-scale has gained about 10% of the market share over that last ten to twelve years or so.  (It seems that the number thrown out back then for n-scale was 18-20% of model railroading, and I think we're probably pushing 30% at this point.)  Where I'm going with this is that I think that probably the n-scale manufacturers gave up on kits just at the wrong moment when the market was expanding.  I think Microscale gave up on the decal market just at the wrong moment and overestimated the impact that printing our own decals has had.  Until a mainstream, inexpensive printer is available that can print WHITE, they still have the market IMHO...but they're basically "done" from what has been reported.  I think M-T changed a lot of their strategy based on "15 years ago" and now they could use a refresher on what would be popular.  (there is a dim indication that this is happening, btw)  I think the timeliness and/or lack of market data for n-scale manufacturers (or their inability to expend the resources to get the data) in particular is probably a contributing factor.  Companies do come and go, and a good portion of MRR companies are cottage/mom-n-pop type operations where it is easy to go in-and-out of business.

What I don't see is modelers "substantially" unwilling to build kits, and the trend of declining detail parts is reversing with the exceptions of attrition. (guys retiring, etc.)  BLMA has been successful, and I think you'll see someone come along and pick up where Sunrise left off.  At the OKC show, there are a couple of dealers that have large selections of detail parts, and it's elbow-to-elbow in there so where there's (obvioiusly) a market, somebody will step in.  There's the argument that says manufacturers aren't making detail parts anymore--making them harder to find--and there's the argument that the increased demand means--they're harder to find.

Glass half-full vs. half-empty.

[3rdrail]

Denver Road Doug, as to the authority for my statement about the number of modelers willing to assemble kits having declined, I base my contention on conversations with dealers that I have conversed with at train shows where I have displayed and operated my railroad. For example, when InterMountain went from kits to assembled models, it gave shops the opportunity to return kits languishing on the shelves.

When I inquired about IMRC kits at Tex-N-Rails in Tallahassee several years back, Brad Herz told me he returned over 1500 unsold kits to IMRC. When one is a regular participant at shows, you get to know the other "regulars" and converse with them on the state of the hobby. Money has replaced skill in the hobby, IMHO. Maybe if I take my portable railroad to Dothan this year, I'll take up one of those offers to buy it!  When I first got involved in displaying it I got inquiries about how I made it. Now I get "How much is it?".

[pedro]

For example, when InterMountain went from kits to assembled models, it gave shops the opportunity to return kits languishing on the shelves.

When I inquired about IMRC kits at Tex-N-Rails in Tallahassee several years back, Brad Herz told me he returned over 1500 unsold kits to IMRC.

As far as I'm concerned, Intermountain kits languished on shelves in stores AND in basements (including my own) not because people aren't willing to build kits, but because they were a royal pain in the a** to assemble. And I LIKE building kits. Real kits, with hundreds of parts.

The ladders and grabs were extremely difficult to remove from the sprues. And gluing parts on a pre-painted model is not for the faint of heart, or shaky of hand. And Intermountain stuff always looks sloppy to me anyway, even the pre-built ones. Warped platforms on the cylindricals, glue in the PE, broken ladders, grabs etc. I think a lot of people probably built one Intermountain car, then swore them off forever. That's what happened to me.

I've had IM kits sit on sale tables at shows with a $2.00 price tag ALL DAY and brought them home. They're just junk. My opinion only, and I'm stickin' to it.

Pete

[3rdrail]

Pete (Pedro), ya don't happen to have an IMRC #60532, NP reefer with "Main Street of the NorthWest" kit, do ya? I've been looking for the KIT for years now! 

[Kisatchie]

As far as I'm concerned, Intermountain kits languished on shelves in stores AND in basements (including my own) not because people aren't willing to build kits, but because they were a royal pain in the a** to assemble...

Intermountain kits require patience and skill to assemble. I know, I've assembled about 75 of their 40' reefers and 40' boxcars, and I consider myself an excellent craftsman. Nowadays, people just don't want to take the time to do it right.

[Frank Amato]

Intermountain kits require patience and skill to assemble. I know, I've assembled about 75 of their 40' reefers and 40' boxcars, and I consider myself an excellent craftsman. Nowadays, people just don't want to take the time to do it right.

Agree 100% -- I've assembled a bunch of undecs.  There are plenty of decals and dry transfers appropriate for the 40' cars.  Building the kits also allows you to weight the car properly (OOB, they're SO light it's not funny).

  Frank

[3rdrail]

I don't know about the "modern" cars, like the various covered hoppers, but I have assembled a number of the IMRC boxcars, reefers, and tank cars and agree with Kisatchie and Amato1969.

There are certain "tricks" to assembling them, like drilling out all the ladder and handrail holes before starting assembly. I have used Tenax 72R for glue using a 20/0 brush to apply it. Yes, I've had cars with warped roofs, but that's no problem to an experienced kitbuilder.

I've got two upstairs to assemble that I bought recently from Des Paines hobbies.

[Denver Road Doug]

Denver Road Doug,For example, when InterMountain went from kits to assembled models, it gave shops the opportunity to return kits languishing on the shelves.

When I inquired about IMRC kits at Tex-N-Rails in Tallahassee several years back, Brad Herz told me he returned over 1500 unsold kits to IMRC.

What other manufacturer even offered kits in n-scale?  I remember when my uncle and I were briefly into n-scale in the early 80's the only "kits" were MDC/Roundhouse.  80% or more of what was available was RTR, even then.  I suspect that when IMRC first began production that changed a bit but can we TRULY say that n-scale was ever a kit-builders haven?

Money has replaced skill in the hobby, IMHO.

This is where I completely disagree.  I think the skill level has reached new heights in our hobby.  To see the work being done here and elsewhere with weathering, locomotive superdetailing, scratchbuilding, scenery, locomotive performance tuning...I don't recall anything like we're seeing now, ever.

The problem is not skill, or lack of willingness to build a kit, but rather the fact that most people work closer to a 60 hour work week than 40.  I realize you retired/semi-retired gents cannot relate to this, but it's a fact of life for the majority these days.  Assume you get 7 hours of sleep per night, that leaves 59 hours versus 79.  Losing 25% of your effective "free time" is significant.  THAT is why folks would rather buy a RTR Intermountain boxcar versus spend the 2 hours to prep, drill, sand, glue, square, weight, assemble, touch-up, and whatever else to build a kit.  It has little do with "want", or willingness, and certainly not skill.  It has to do with "I can buy the RTR Intermountain hopper, then have time to scratchbuild that locomotive that is not available in ANY form, kit, RTR, brass, or whatever."  It's about opportunity costs, not money.

[John]

MT used to offer kits ..