1940s-'50s PRR steam used in freight service

[VonRyan]

Cody;
I think the confusion is your terminology.
A 2-10-2 is usually (always?) refered to as a "santa fe".

Well what i'm going on in terms of infor is simply what my friend, who owns the loco and has more books on the PRR that a library, said.
I'll have to see what info i can get off of the bottom of the loco next time i see it.

-Cody F.

[pennsyfan1361]

Cody, the locomotive you talked about is a Con-Cor  USRA PRR 2-10-2 N2  Santa Fe type not a PRR M1 Mountain 4-8-2. http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/cc2102.html. From what Mark said in his review it can be a nice running locomotive. But the 2-10-2 was not DCC/Sound.  There is a hobby shop that will install http://tophobbytrains.com/browseproducts/3921-DCC-Sound-USRA-Heavy-2-10-2-Pennsy-w-DogHouse-Cab-----9634-(N-Scale).HTML                    Rich

[pennsyfan1361]

Cody, I came across this about the N2.   http://www.steamlocomotive.com/santafe/?page=prr I hope this helps you choose  a PRR steam locomotive        Rich

[mmagliaro]

The 2-10-2 was not a very common engine on the PRR system.  It's not nearly as appropriate as an L1 or H10.   The Con-Cor model would also require you to kitbash at least a Belpair firebox onto it, unless you are modeling the 1920s before the PRR changed the USRA fireboxes that the N1 originally had.

Mark's review about the tender pickups is correct.  But there's more.  The tender wheels on these
often drag, rather than roll.  Modifying the pickup tabs and putting on springs as he shows
is a big help.  I remember Victor Miranda coming up with this idea, and I did it on mine.

But beyond that, these Con-Cor engines have a nasty problem in their axle bearings that can cause derailments on curves and the problem is difficult to fix.  It takes major disassembly, drivers, rods, bearings, etc.

Once it's fixed up, it is a GREAT running engine.  Smooth, silky, creeps well, pulls magnificently.

But I think the Mikado + GHQ kit is a far better choice based on it's out-of-the-box reliability
and more appropriate fit for 1940s 1950s PRR which is what you wanted.

I hear you on the budget.  My answer to that is just don't plan on doing it all at once.  You can get the Mikado, and have a really nice running steam loco, for well within your budget.  Get the GHQ kit some other time when money allows. 

[Chris333]

I will never be able to say a nice thing about the CC 2-10-2 

[central.vermont]

But beyond that, these Con-Cor engines have a nasty problem in their axle bearings that can cause derailments on curves and the problem is difficult to fix.  It takes major dis-assembly, drivers, rods, bearings, etc.

Max,
Can you elaborate on this fix you mention. I have one of these that will become a CV 2-10-4 at some point and want to make it a good runner before I get into doing any modifications to it to be more road specific for me.

Jon

[VonRyan]

Cody, the locomotive you talked about is a Con-Cor  USRA PRR 2-10-2 N2  Santa Fe type not a PRR M1 Mountain 4-8-2. http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/cc2102.html. From what Mark said in his review it can be a nice running locomotive. But the 2-10-2 was not DCC/Sound.  There is a hobby shop that will install http://tophobbytrains.com/browseproducts/3921-DCC-Sound-USRA-Heavy-2-10-2-Pennsy-w-DogHouse-Cab-----9634-(N-Scale).HTML                    Rich

I've no clue if the DCC/sound in the loco is a factory or after-market job, but i know he bought it brand new.

The 2-10-2 was not a very common engine on the PRR system.  It's not nearly as appropriate as an L1 or H10.   The Con-Cor model would also require you to kitbash at least a Belpair firebox onto it, unless you are modeling the 1920s before the PRR changed the USRA fireboxes that the N1 originally had.
Mark's review about the tender pickups is correct.  But there's more.  The tender wheels on these
often drag, rather than roll.  Modifying the pickup tabs and putting on springs as he shows
is a big help.  I remember Victor Miranda coming up with this idea, and I did it on mine.
But beyond that, these Con-Cor engines have a nasty problem in their axle bearings that can cause derailments on curves and the problem is difficult to fix.  It takes major disassembly, drivers, rods, bearings, etc.
Once it's fixed up, it is a GREAT running engine.  Smooth, silky, creeps well, pulls magnificently.
But I think the Mikado + GHQ kit is a far better choice based on it's out-of-the-box reliability
and more appropriate fit for 1940s 1950s PRR which is what you wanted.
I hear you on the budget.  My answer to that is just don't plan on doing it all at once.  You can get the Mikado, and have a really nice running steam loco, for well within your budget.  Get the GHQ kit some other time when money allows. 

Sort of purpose defeating since the idea is for the $140 to cover the entire process of having someone build/convert a loco, or buy a commercially available loco that either has DCC already in it or still have enough left over to have someone install a decoder.

So since the overall consensus is thus far an H10 or an L1, is there anyone who could do the necessary kitbashing?
Plus what chassis (and other parts?) would i need to buy first? it might not leave much left over to cover the work involved, but there isn't anything i have that would be worth adding in terms of trade value.

-Cody F.

[Chris333]

Max,
Can you elaborate on this fix you mention. I have one of these that will become a CV 2-10-4 at some point and want to make it a good runner before I get into doing any modifications to it to be more road specific for me.

Jon

Jon,
The square bearing blocks that sit into the frame are right where the drivers press into axle centers. This is normal except on this model there is a big gap right there between the driver and axle. So as the drivers move side to side the bearing block gets caught on that gap. Once I replaced the whole set of drivers (thanks to Max) I then had to work on the pick-ups. I just swapped out the whole tender with a Bachmann long and also wired the motor right to the frame (no DCC here) After all that just to get it running I started to detail the body only to find the whole locomotive is 3/8" too long. To top it off I paid full Walther's price of $315. I gave up at that point, traded it for a Kato mikado and built my own 2-10-2:
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/NScale#5276961413294646978

If the Bachmann 2-10-2 have the right sized drivers I would start there and e-bay the CC.

[mmagliaro]

What Chris said is pretty much the story.

...
Here's a very crude drawing...




The center part of the axle is a plasic "tube".  The wheels each have a nub on the back that you can think of as
the little piece of the end of axle. You slide the axle through the bearings and push the wheels on the ends.
This isn't uncommon at all.

The problem is that the plastic axle and the nubs are not quite the same diameter.  The wheel nubs are a little bigger.
And worse, the bearings are bored for those metal nubs.

So.. there is a little "ledge" where the smaller-diameter plastic axle meets the nubs.  As the axle slides back and forth,
usually on curves, it can slide just enough so that the joint between the nub and the axle goes outside the edge of the bearing
block, so when the axle tries to slide back IN, the little ledge gets caught on the bearing block.  So you get click, skip, jump,
derail.

If the bearing blocks had been made just a little wider, so that the nub/axle joints would always be in the bearings and not slide out,
of if the plastic axle had been made the same diameter as the nubs, all would be fine.

Victor fixed his by replacing the bearing  blocks with the ones from a Kato Mike, which are a little wider.

I fixed mine by pulling all the drivers, spinning them in a drill, and running diamond files and
then super fine grit sandpaper (like 400) to gently taper the nubs down at their edges to the diameter of
the plastic axle.  This allows that joint to slide back and forth in and out of the bearings with out getting stuck.

If you gauge your wheelsets too narrow, then you won't have this problem, because the axle can't slide back and forth enough
to let the joint slip out of the bearing block.  This is most likely how Con-Cor made this mistake, because like so many commercial
models, they probably set the gauge a little narrow and never notice this problem.

Another way around it might be putting washers behind all the drivers so you don't get as much lateral play.
But you'll limit the curves this thing can negotiate if you do that.

I don't know... It might work fine if your curves aren't too sharp.  And this might be the easiest way to fix it of all.

[VonRyan]

What Chris said is pretty much the story.

...
Here's a very crude drawing...




The center part of the axle is a plasic "tube".  The wheels each have a nub on the back that you can think of as
the little piece of the end of axle. You slide the axle through the bearings and push the wheels on the ends.
This isn't uncommon at all.

The problem is that the plastic axle and the nubs are not quite the same diameter.  The wheel nubs are a little bigger.
And worse, the bearings are bored for those metal nubs.

So.. there is a little "ledge" where the smaller-diameter plastic axle meets the nubs.  As the axle slides back and forth,
usually on curves, it can slide just enough so that the joint between the nub and the axle goes outside the edge of the bearing
block, so when the axle tries to slide back IN, the little ledge gets caught on the bearing block.  So you get click, skip, jump,
derail.

If the bearing blocks had been made just a little wider, so that the nub/axle joints would always be in the bearings and not slide out,
of if the plastic axle had been made the same diameter as the nubs, all would be fine.

Victor fixed his by replacing the bearing  blocks with the ones from a Kato Mike, which are a little wider.

I fixed mine by pulling all the drivers, spinning them in a drill, and running diamond files and
then super fine grit sandpaper (like 400) to gently taper the nubs down at their edges to the diameter of
the plastic axle.  This allows that joint to slide back and forth in and out of the bearings with out getting stuck.

If you gauge your wheelsets too narrow, then you won't have this problem, because the axle can't slide back and forth enough
to let the joint slip out of the bearing block.  This is most likely how Con-Cor made this mistake, because like so many commercial
models, they probably set the gauge a little narrow and never notice this problem.

Another way around it might be putting washers behind all the drivers so you don't get as much lateral play.
But you'll limit the curves this thing can negotiate if you do that.

I don't know... It might work fine if your curves aren't too sharp.  And this might be the easiest way to fix it of all.

Seems more work that its worth, plus with its price and rarity they're seen on the market, i think i'll pursure the kitbash an H10sa option.

It's just a matter of who is willing to take on said project?

-Cody F.

[Chris333]

Ledge. Gap. Its been a while... 

[VonRyan]

Ledge. Gap. Its been a while... 

If you happen to fall into the gap, you can come keep me company.
I've been in the gap since National Train Day which the night before i pushed to churn out some basic ground cover (fine, earth colored, WS foam) and as much ballasting as i could possibly do.

As it is i've started a large steamship boiler scratchbuild that will adorn a depressed center flatcar.

-Cody F.