Rumors of Protomate’s demise are unfortunately true :-(

[Lemosteam]

Ed, thanks for the link- I will be investigating several makers soon.

[ednadolski]

Bump.... just wondering, any luck with the springs?

FWIW, found this link,  looks like they do some pretty small stuff, including custom.

https://www.leespring.com/micro-springs
https://www.leespring.com/torsion-springs


Ed

[PaulP]

Have you given any thoughts on using a
 flat plate spring like some locos use on the
 back side of the coupler?
simple and effective and no slinky effect?

[Lemosteam]

Bump.... just wondering, any luck with the springs?

FWIW, found this link,  looks like they do some pretty small stuff, including custom.

https://www.leespring.com/micro-springs
https://www.leespring.com/torsion-springs


Ed

Contacted them before I started this thread. They refused to quote. I have new drawings that I will be sending to another potential source soon.

[JoeD]

Micro-Trains N scale couplers have probably the softest and finest springs I have ever seen.  If MTL can get those made, there is hope for Protomate springs getting softer (sounds funny in a "get it larger and harder" world).   

following,,, btw we make our own springs...6 different ones I believe.  The set up to have something specifically prototyped is extensive and most companies will not work for what they consider low production runs.  The trick is getting the right wire to start with...

Joe

 

[Sokramiketes]

Any updates, @Lemosteam?

[Lemosteam]

Well I guess it's time I officially threw in the towel on this, and as saddened as I am to let DKS down (and the whole N Scale community) with this announcement, I wholly concede to the success of the N-Possible coupler.

Although I had a completed design, I did not have the wherewithal (time, money, testing) to see it to fruition.  The gift of the patent itself is something I will always be grateful to DKS for, even though I could not make his dream come true.

After reviewing the N-Possible patent, I am fairly certain there is no infringement in its design over DKS's patent.  This is the reason I was quiet about the Protomate for so long; I was waiting to see the N-Possible design, and if I had to defend the my patent for infringement (which regardless would have been impossible for me to do, monetarily).

In fact, I will humbly congratulate @turbowhiz 's ingenuity for his superior spring design, although it needs more space behind the 1015 box than the Protomate (a small nit to pick).  The spring in my last Protomate design is its downfall, needing too fine a wire to find commercially and too costly for me to prototype for testing.

I was never able to print the coupler accurately enough to ensure operational repeatability, or strength during testing, which would have had questionable results.

I hope the 'wire collective can forgive my inability to deliver a promising design and lack of follow up on the Protomate's development, but if nothing else, it may have helped spur the N-Possible design into existence (lets face it, there are MANY similarities).  For that we all might be finally grateful for a production intent, reliable, non-slinky design coming to market soon.

Lastly, a hearty thanks to those members that supported my efforts while they lasted.

[ednadolski]

Sorry to hear of this.  It's no easy task, but thanks for all your efforts to improve things for N scalers.

Ed

[GaryHinshaw]

John, thanks for the update.  I really appreciate that you gave it a good shot when you did, and I'm sure I speak for many.  Please don't feel too bad about this!

[peteski]

I  hope Protomate is not relegated to history John.
 While the N-Possible couplers appear to be excellent (and scaled properly), There is still a need for a better standard N scale knuckle coupler.  Protomate would fulfill that need.  It has a more prototypical appearance and no slinky effect. And it inter-operates with the half dozen of various N scale knuckle coupler currently in use.  Maybe someone else could pick up the ball (no, not me).  As far as the spring is concerned, a steel or a phosphor bronze wire of a small enough diameter should be available.  something like 0.002" wire would probably work.

[Jimbo]

I was never able to print the coupler accurately enough to ensure operational repeatability, or strength during testing, which would have had questionable results.

I hope the 'wire collective can forgive my inability to deliver a promising design and lack of follow up on the Protomate's development…

@Lemosteam  - this was a monumental challenge; as you learned, manufacturing is hard!  I am sincerely grateful to you for taking on the challenge; we as a community are better off with pioneers such as yourself willing to take a (financial) risk to better the N scale product!

I presumed that, with the loss of Shapeways, you would have difficulty fulfilling this mission.  Hence, my comment on a different thread indicating that this product was likely dead.  And I am deeply sorry that this is the case.

Thank you for the hard work you put into pursuing this regardless!  I also sincerely hope that you find an avenue to revive Keystone Details; you’ve proven yourself to be an innovator and an asset to our hobby.

Sincerely,
Jim

[Mark5]

I hope the 'wire collective can forgive my inability to deliver a promising design and lack of follow up on the Protomate's development, but if nothing else, it may have helped spur the N-Possible design into existence (lets face it, there are MANY similarities).  For that we all might be finally grateful for a production intent, reliable, non-slinky design coming to market soon.

Lastly, a hearty thanks to those members that supported my efforts while they lasted.

Nothing to forgive on my end! The way I see it, you helped pushed N scale forward.

Big respect,

Mark

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Well I guess it's time I officially threw in the towel on this, and as saddened as I am to let DKS down (and the whole N Scale community) with this announcement, I wholly concede to the success of the N-Possible coupler.

Although I had a completed design, I did not have the wherewithal (time, money, testing) to see it to fruition.  The gift of the patent itself is something I will always be grateful to DKS for, even though I could not make his dream come true.

After reviewing the N-Possible patent, I am fairly certain there is no infringement in its design over DKS's patent.  This is the reason I was quiet about the Protomate for so long; I was waiting to see the N-Possible design, and if I had to defend the my patent for infringement (which regardless would have been impossible for me to do, monetarily).

In fact, I will humbly congratulate @turbowhiz 's ingenuity for his superior spring design, although it needs more space behind the 1015 box than the Protomate (a small nit to pick).  The spring in my last Protomate design is its downfall, needing too fine a wire to find commercially and too costly for me to prototype for testing.

I was never able to print the coupler accurately enough to ensure operational repeatability, or strength during testing, which would have had questionable results.

I hope the 'wire collective can forgive my inability to deliver a promising design and lack of follow up on the Protomate's development, but if nothing else, it may have helped spur the N-Possible design into existence (lets face it, there are MANY similarities).  For that we all might be finally grateful for a production intent, reliable, non-slinky design coming to market soon.

Lastly, a hearty thanks to those members that supported my efforts while they lasted.

John, I don't think ANYONE will be upset with you. If they are they can fight me.

[turbowhiz]

Well I guess it's time I officially threw in the towel on this, and as saddened as I am to let DKS down (and the whole N Scale community) with this announcement, I wholly concede to the success of the N-Possible coupler.

Although I had a completed design, I did not have the wherewithal (time, money, testing) to see it to fruition.  The gift of the patent itself is something I will always be grateful to DKS for, even though I could not make his dream come true.

After reviewing the N-Possible patent, I am fairly certain there is no infringement in its design over DKS's patent.  This is the reason I was quiet about the Protomate for so long; I was waiting to see the N-Possible design, and if I had to defend the my patent for infringement (which regardless would have been impossible for me to do, monetarily).

In fact, I will humbly congratulate @turbowhiz 's ingenuity for his superior spring design, although it needs more space behind the 1015 box than the Protomate (a small nit to pick).  The spring in my last Protomate design is its downfall, needing too fine a wire to find commercially and too costly for me to prototype for testing.

I was never able to print the coupler accurately enough to ensure operational repeatability, or strength during testing, which would have had questionable results.

I hope the 'wire collective can forgive my inability to deliver a promising design and lack of follow up on the Protomate's development, but if nothing else, it may have helped spur the N-Possible design into existence (lets face it, there are MANY similarities).  For that we all might be finally grateful for a production intent, reliable, non-slinky design coming to market soon.

Lastly, a hearty thanks to those members that supported my efforts while they lasted.

@Lemosteam John,

I can appreciate how disappointing for all involved it is not to get something like this over the finish line, given how much work (and money!) was put into it.

My design was honestly born out of just wanting TSC’s to be fully functional, with absolutely no commercial ambitions during the initial development. Being absolutely new to N scale (but not the hobby), I had no appreciation for the multiple serious attempts at solving the N scale coupler problem, and that was probably a good thing. I’ll say that all of the model coupler designs have built upon the successes and failures of their predecessors, and it’s probably not a stretch to say that if not for the Protomate there probably wouldn’t have been the TSC and positively if not for the TSC there wouldn’t have been N-Possible.

The burden of actually delivering the promise of a better coupler now lies on my shoulders, and I’m very confident that it’s in hand at this point. I believe the N scale community will benefit from a coupler that better fits the needs of the prototype modeler, and even those not so inclined will benefit from a larger customer base in the scale.

A sincere thank you for your endorsement and support!

Andrew