Track Ties?

[robert3985]

Regarding spikes.  Proto87 Stores offers spikes that would probably work in N-scale on C55 track, and might even work on C40.  I'm still not completely unpacked from my move so I can't get at my sample to measure the height of the heads.

These are etched stainless steel spikes and are properly scaled to be correct for HO scale, which means they would be about 200% prototype size for N-scale.  Actual advertised measurements for the shaft thickness is .010" and when I look at the photos at the P87 website, it appears that the spikehead is not as tall as the spike shaft is thick, which means the heads could be as short as .007" or maybe .008", either measurement putting the spikehead at less than, or around 1.250 inches tall in N-scale.

Picking nits here since the clearances are so small, I decided to measure my Code 40 rail.  The results were interesting.  Original RailCraft Code40 flex is exactly .040".  However, recently purchased "rail" is .0425".  Let's see if this makes a difference as to what wheels will roll on track spiked with P87 "True HO Scale Spikes".

Okay...on C40 rail, a spike with a .008" tall head leaves a clearance of .032" for flanges.  That's IF the rail is exactly .040" tall.  If "new" ME C40 rail is really .0425" tall, then the flange clearance goes up by 2.5 thousands to .0345".

I took some time to actually measure flange depths on (1) original rib-back Kadee N-scale wheels, (2) original Kadee (or MT) Lo-Pro one-piece wheelsets, and (3) original Fox Valley narrow tread metal Lo-Pro wheelsets. 

Both original Kadee/MT and FV metal skinny tread wheelsets are going to run fine on C40 rail spiked with the P87 "True HO Scale" etched SS spikes with their .0185" and .0145" flange depth respectively, but...original rib-back Kadee N-scale wheelsets are going to kiss the spike heads with their .0345" flange depth.

I am going to assume that "new" Micro Trains "standard" flanges are going to be okay also, but I didn't want to hunt for any that I might have since my model trains are still in U-Haul boxes.

IF your newly purchased ME C40 rail is really .0425" tall then you might get away with running a maximum pizza cutter flange depth of .0345 like the 38+ year old Kadee rib-backed wheelsets, and I'm not sure if any N-scale manufacturer made deeper flanges either on their motive power or cars.

I'm going to say that any engine or car manufactured in the 21st Century (the last 18 years) will run just fine on P87 spiked C40 track, and why would you want to run big, ugly, pizza cutters on your lovely, scale sized rail anyway????

Just askin' 

Fortunately, P87 makes three lengths of their "True HO Scale" sized spikes, from their "cosmetic" spikes with scale length (for HO) shaft length, to a "Longer" length that is about 2.5 times the length of the "cosmetic" length, with a "Short" size that is about 2 times the "cosmetic" length, so holding power shouldn't be a problem.  All of these have the same sized spike head.

The price isn't too bad either with 1000 "Short" spikes costing $7.95 and unlike the old RailCraft spikes, there won't be a lot of throwaways as all of the etched spikes should be the same.

Sooooo...although I am not going to do it, spiking both C55 and C40 track in N-scale is definitely possible, and might be cheaper than using PCB ties.  You can do the cost analysis because it's time for lunch for me!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Mark5]

I gave the Pliobond technique a try back in the mid-70s, and it worked surprisingly well. One trick to help ensure success is to sand the ties after laying them to make them true, and to create a good clean surface for bonding. But there are so many better methods today.

That's exactly how I did it - and yes there has been progress.  (back then you had to make your own frogs, points, guard rails, etc)

Mark

[robert3985]

... I gave the Pliobond technique a try back in the mid-70s, and it worked surprisingly well. One trick to help ensure success is to sand the ties after laying them to make them true, and to create a good clean surface for bonding. But there are so many better methods today.

BTW, that's Z Scale track in the photo...

I also used the Pliobond method in my first test of how make turnouts, following Gordy Odegard's article in the February 1976 issue of MR, but I used C55 instead of C40.  Although the methodology was okay for using Pliobond as a track adhesive, I found it was nearly impossible to apply neatly to the bottom of my rails using the big ole brush supplied in the little brown bottle that it came in.   It also bubbled out from under the rails when it was heated to activate it, and I didn't like the look of the bubbly mass where spikes and tie plates should be.

However, that said, Fast Tracks sells it for using it to glue their laser cut tie sheets to the underside of their fixture-made turnouts, and supplies a press-on pointy applicator for the tubes of it they sell.  Also, in the video I looked at about how to use it, it looked to be a lot runnier than it was when I used it 35+ years ago.

It appears that it is easier to use now than it was when I tried it.

I also sand the tops of my wooden ties when laying code 40 track.  I lay both the PCB ties and the wooden ties, then sand the ties down to the point my sanding block is just barely kissing the tops of the PCB ties, then I de-fuzz the wooden ties with a small wire brush, brushing them in a perpendicular direction to the centerline of the track, which removes the fuzz, and gives them a bit of "grain". 

I also sand my cork roadbed before laying either flex or ties on it.

After the rails are soldered to the PCB ties and the wiring has all been done and the track tested thoroughly, I paint the whole assembly using Krylon Camo Ultra Flat Black, then pick out the ties with additional methods, so "matching" PCB ties to the wooden ones isn't a problem since they're all painted with the same methods.

I also don't cut a big "gutter" in the copper cladding on the PCB ties, but I use an oval jeweler's file randomly to file the gaps, varying the placement and direction of the cladding removal so the eye doesn't get attracted to a uniform row of anything running down the center of my track.

With a little extra effort, PCB ties become difficult to spot after painting, weathering, ballasting and weathering again.

Photo (1) - Handlaid C55 & C40 - Find the PCB Ties:


So far, the thread drift on this thread has made me re-examine the practical feasibility of spiking N-scale C55 and C40 track, and how I'm gonna lay my sidings and spur trackage in my next two modules featuring Devils Slide and the Ideal Concrete Plant.  Thread drift...oh yeah!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[nkalanaga]

Bob:  Good looking track!  And I agree, vary the location and size of the gaps, or the line down the middle becomes very distracting.  Another key feature of hiding PC ties is good soldering techniques, which you seem to have mastered.

The smallest Railcraft/ME spikes available when I started trying to lay track were the 1/4 inch long ones.  I don't remember if those were their small or medium, and the labels are long since lost from my pound bag.  They and pizza cutters worked fine with code 55 rail, although one had to be careful that the spike head was all the way down.  I still use them some, on both hand laid and commercial track, as rail braces, at turnouts and curved joints.

They will work, barely, with modern lo-pro flanges on code 40, but again, getting the spike head all the way down is critical.   Again, I've used a few for the same purposes on both standard and narrow gauge.

They now have 3/16 inch spikes, which might work better for N, but I haven't tried them.

[Mark5]

Nice track Bob!