Let the Games Begin! MR opens the door for reader reviews...

[DKS]

ok. the clutter will have to stay....

Your post  gave a good chuckle.  I found myself wondering what you are complaining about?
You used a lot of the good lines from a small number of the posts in that thread.

Well, then, one man's "good lines" is another's "worthless noise," and believe me, I was just scratching at the surface (I frankly have neither the time nor the desire to pick the thread apart post by post). What am I complaining about? Posts with no real value. I defy anyone to find such in one like this:

It used to be one had to have at least an MS to be that condescending.

How on earth does this add value to the subject at hand? It is a personal attack, nothing more, and IMO has no place in a product review; it stands as one of the reasons I don't bother much with the A-Board any more. The poor signal-to-noise ratio isn't worth it.

wanna give it a try?
go back to the atlas board and take your censor with you.
once you swing it(the censor) remove all my posts from the thread.
cause that is what would have happened.

I leave you to wallow in petty bickering, then.

Jim Slack responds with:
9 to 12 cars seems rather pathetic.
That was posted May 8, and it hasn't been yanked.  Seems like they're keeping an open mind, but they include this note:
Please keep your feedback thoughtful, on-topic and respectful. Offensive language, personal attacks, or irrelevant comments may be deleted.
I suppose to keep it from becoming a free-for-all.

Good job, IMO.

(Edited to add Lee's example.)

[David Leonard]

This is beginning to sound like some people's perceptions of the A board! Anyway, I think one of the issues with modeler reviews and feedback is that by the time any of it reaches our eyes, some of the products reviewed are no longer available. "Built to order" has its advantages, but if you're waiting for a review before committing to purchase, you can sometimes be too late.

[wm3798]

That's where the value of on-line product reviews lies, timeliness.  I think MR's editors are beginning to understand that.  It may be that we don't see much reviewed in N scale because so much if it is now "built to order" meaning that by the time the product flashes across the sky, the magazine is still a month or more away from press time.

And Victor, if the 0-8-0 thread could have been reduced to yours and Max's comments, it would have been about 5 pages and of far more value and less a subject of ridicule.  I stopped reading it after a few pages, partly because I'm not in the market for that particular model, but I found the discussion of the drive and the comparison of the motors to be interesting.  Unfortunately that got mired in knee-deep BS, so I tuned the rest of the discussion out.

If MR can manage the conversation without watering down the message, I think this will be a valuable feature for their website and readers.

Lee

[victor miranda]

mmmm
I found I had a smile on my face after I read your post.
I was thinking of the movie Monty Python's Holy Grail.
All I got from your post was the same intent as
the castle guard who said "I scoff at your pathetic existence!
now be gone or I shall taunt you again!"

Not wanting to be taunted again, I decided to skip a reply.

However...
Lee said something that made me realize that I needed to write another post
and so I thought I'd let you know what you said to me.

and you did ask a question and I guess I can try to answer it
because I percieve Lee effectively asked the same thing.

Lee,
This thread is about reviews on the MR website.

One of the best things about any open forum is that one can speak one's mind.
That speaking is not that one can say what other's want to hear.
The ability to state what others do not want to hear is the entire point.
so when some one says what you or any one else does not want to hear,
ignoring it is one option. As long as ALL others have had the chance to hear and think
about the opposite view, I am happy.

This thread  also used a thread in the Atlas Forum as an example.
I think the moderator made a proper decision to lock the thread.
It was no longer being added to as a review/solution thread for the 0-8-0.

During the thread's life it was lively and had a lot of participants and they almost all
brought their opinions and facts and added to the better understanding of the model.
There is no way such a good review of all aspects(both goot and bad) of the loco would have happened,
if there were a 'degree' of moderation in it.

back pointedly to MR.
MR simply can't moderate such a thread. 
One can moderate a forum with a set of good guidelines, and that can be the 'degree'
when one brings that moderation into a review type thread the guidelines are going to be pushed.
and the guidelines have to be clearly crushed before any post can be deleted, edited, spindled, or mutulated.
(this is what happened with the 0-8-0 thread.)
the second MR 'moderates' a post, they will be accused of bias.
The free and open opinionating will die at that point also.

Does not matter which way the 'moderating' falls either.
The reviews will be seen as product advertising or as bashing.

GIven the way MR does things, I do not see their reviews as being useful past advertising supplements.
May they surprise me.

[wm3798]

I don't remember asking a question.
The MR review page has a few critical differences from your typical forum review/love fest vs. bash fest thread...
First, it's not open to everyone.  It is part of the subscriber only content, which right off the bat limits participation.

Second, and I think most importantly, it doesn't give you the opportunity to hide behind a screen name.  When you post, it goes under the name on your subscription, plus provides your state/province.  This will also thin the herd and I think prevent some of the bombast that often pollutes general discussion forums.  People tend to get very polite when they have to take responsibility for their words and actions.

I agree that a free and open discussion has the best, if not most direct, path to the truth.  However, it's important not to mistake on-line forums with corporate sponsorship or private ownership (such as this one) as a public square.  It'll be interesting to watch the MR reviews to see what direction they take, and how heavy handed the moderation is.  Likewise it will be interesting to see how truthful and objective the readers are in their assessment of various products.  Time will tell...

Lee

[victor miranda]

take my word for it, Lee, I percieved a question

victor

[wm3798]

I hope I answered it then... ???
Lee

[gunner]

I really do not think that anyone will get much useful information out of on line reviews without their own moderation.  There are enough people out there that will spew crap about a crap model that comes from their pet manufacturer, that is absolutely perfect (even though it sounds like a blender full of wallnut shells and can't pull a sick whore off the commode with a $5 bill).  Limiting reviews to subscribers is a gimmick to expand subscriptions, period.  As such, it's only a marketing ploy, not a vehicle to expand the hobby.  Hoping that people will refrain from bias due to the reporting of names and locale based on subscription data is a pipe dream, they can fall back on the crutch of "it's my opinion on the product". 

There are very few people on line that I trust for honest opinions; Lee, Victor and Dave V. are some of the very few that have earned my trust.  They show the maturity to recognize quality products, provide useful information on improvements, can admit when they are wrong and have no problem providing verifiable information to prove a point.

There is so much sniping of opinions on models that an honest review cannot stand the light of day.  You have to filter out the BS responses from the useful information.  It's just like relying on MRR product reviews.  I've figured out that I have to spend the money and make my own decisions.  I can't trust the content on the internet or in the magazines anymore.  Personal agendas dilute the useable information to the point that it is more cost effective for me to piss away a hundred bucks on a 'new preorder or miss it model'.

That's why the new concept from MRR is a nonstarter for me.

Bob