PRR/Conrail Juniata Division Engineering Report

[Dave V]

Dave, I agree...  My concerns there are: 

- Would want to go all code 55 at that point, and that would be traumatic.  All the feeders will come up with the track (I used feeder joiners) and so will the Woodland Scenics never-will-use-it-again roadbed.

- Would address lack of passing siding on station side of Lewistown (this is a good thing).

- Would have difficulty leveling the surface for new roadbed and trackage as the foam will likely be damaged by removal of old track, roads, and scenery.

- At that point it would be time to address my big-a$$ jumble of wiring underneath and re-wire using a more common-sense approach.

None of these are show-stoppers, but will pose a real challenge.

Time and money are not in play for the next few months so for now I will sit on it...  However, I would happily welcome any ideas regarding how to take the picture DKS just posted and modify Lewistown trackage to make better operating sense and be more like prototype.  Structures can be moved, but should still be in harmony with real Lewistown to a point.

Fire away!

[wm3798]

Once you make the commitment to abandon the c80, the first item will not matter.  Wet down the ballast, get out your putty knife, and the Peco track will be gone in a half hour or less, the WS foam crap in another 1/2 hour, depending on how you glued it down.  The feed wires won't matter either.  Nip off the joiners, and leave them in place, then solder them to the c55 joiners.  You may have to abandon one or two or drop a couple of new ones, but that's going to happen no matter what, because you're reconfiguring the track at parts anyway.

Once the old track and roadbed are out, you can easily level the foam subroadbed with some sculptamold.

I'll be tinkering with some sketches, too, stay tuned.
Lee

[Dave V]

Would your session have gone better with two shorter turns than one longer one?

-gfh

Probably.  In fact, it would make better sense to run a local in each direction such that each only works trailing point moves.  However, because of the goofy short switchback at the Viscose plant, any deliveries to the farm store would need to be pre-blocked at the front of the train to avoid blocking the westbound (inner) track for longer than the time it takes to zig-zag through the interlocking.  If there's a pickup at the farm store to be cleared prior to drop-off, then all bets are off and both mains must be blocked, regardless.

Lewistown needs a dedicated passing siding.  That much is clear.

[Dave V]

One thing to consider is that the Juniata Division seems to be a fan favorite, in spite of its obvious flaws.  I know there would be a minor internet uproar if it headed out to the dumpster.  Maybe it's that my father and grandfather taught me humility, but I've never quite understood why it has the fan base it does.  There's nothing at all innovative about the railroad; it's 100% plagiarized, but from multiple sources.  In the end all I will admit is that it looks pretty good from certain angles.

However, there's value in upgrading it, but saving the part that people like most (the scenery).  Converting it to c55 and changing the orientation as well as correcting operational deficiencies would be a fun, teachable moment.

[wm3798]

For this fan, it's the harmonious blend of central PA town, main line high iron, and iconic PRR architecture (or at least a strong suggestion thereof) all in a bite sized package.  The addition of the Enola module iced the cake.

Lee

[conrail98]

However, I would happily welcome any ideas regarding how to take the picture DKS just posted and modify Lewistown trackage to make better operating sense and be more like prototype.  Structures can be moved, but should still be in harmony with real Lewistown to a point.

How many doors would you consider? Just a bridge between? I've got a few ideas,

Phil

[wm3798]

Here's a version that we came up with previously, including the wye and my suggestion of a switchback to gain the necessary elevation for the coal yard.

Here's a version that illustrates more what I'm thinking of presently... introducing the addition of an 18" to 24" door to bridge between the two existing doors.


The one element I haven't quite figured out is the top of the curve where the wye comes in.  The easiest solution would be to have a single switch on the outer loop, followed by a switch that brings the track to double just to the right of that.  Given the orientation of Lewistown, clockwise would be westbound.

At Lewistown, you now have three tracks through the station, one of which can serve as a siding during switching maneuvrers.  There are also crossovers that allow for continuous operations on the original JD, and leaving enough siding space to hole up a local to let the express pass.

It could probably be cleaned up a bit, but I think this gives you what you're looking for.  The full size door could be truncated as needed, and the 4 track photo run by section (really, the only reason it would need to be four tracks) could be reduced to 2 to simplify the junctions.

I'd recommend that you make the bit between Enola and the wye long enough to hold a train.  This way, you can build up a train, take it out to the wye jct. where it can hold until the train orbiting the main can come in.  Or it can sit there out of the way... sort of a staging track, while you shuffle other cars in the yard.

Lee

[Dave V]

Guys, just for reference the room is barely 11' by 11'...  It's actually an inch or so shy of that.



The design DKS and I came up with on the last page is IT, orientation- and size-wise.  I can't grow the layout any more in terms of real estate.  It's not in a big basement like it was in Nebraska.

I need help with the track on the big door rather than adding more doors.

Lee's mod to Lewistown is on the right track(s)...   ;D

[davefoxx]

Dave,

To add the passing siding at Lewistown, have you considered adding a third track at the table edge?  I know this may bring it uncomfortable close to the edge, but that can be rectified by adding a strip to the table edge.  In essence, your existing inside track could become the alignment of the passing siding, the existing outside track would become the westbound mainline, and the new track at the edge (which would also align with the sidings at the both ends of the table) would become the eastbound mainline.

The advantages are that you should not have to make the radius tighter and the majority of Lewistown would be unaffected.  Of course, you'll have to redo the crossovers and such to follow the new alignments, but you're talking about replacing the current track with c55 anyway.  You may have to order some more custom curved turnouts, though.

Hope this helps,
DFF

[Dave V]

Dave,

To add the passing siding at Lewistown, have you considered adding a third track at the table edge?  I know this may bring it uncomfortable close to the edge, but that can be rectified by adding a strip to the table edge.  In essence, your existing inside track could become the alignment of the passing siding, the existing outside track would become the westbound mainline, and the new track at the edge (which would also align with the sidings at the both ends of the table) would become the eastbound mainline.

Dave, actually, that's exactly what I was thinking, and have considered many times in the past.  That's really the only viable solution.  The other nugget is dealing with the sidings and industries.

We can move/eliminate structures as necessary, and I'm fine getting rid of or replacing the coal mine with something else.  Frankly, having that switch on the far side makes working the mine a pain in the butt.

[DKS]

As I see it, the only possible answer here is to break the whole layout down into modules. It's the single solution to all of your problems--a series of compact, identical modules that you can reconfigure any way you like.

With that settled, I took a look at Lee's sketch and merged it into our original draft. One of the problems with Lee's proposal is that wye connection at the top (or left, as shown here)--there is no way it could be built except to hand-lay two switches and a curved crossing. So, that's going to have to be reduced down to a single track leading off of the outside curve. But then I went a little switch-crazy. To help with switching on the mine side of the layout, I added a second crossover. And on the other side, I added two new tracks, one as a runaround and one as a staging track. The end effect is something along the lines of a Pensy four-track main. Well, sort of. If you squint.
 


Yes, it's way, way too much, but I figure one can just start paring it back to the essentials needed to get the ops job done.

OK, have at it.

[Dave V]

Okay...  Wow...  I like it!  Although I'll be honest, it's rather more track than I think will comfortably fit, to say nothing of the cost and time of the turnouts and their wiring.

I think having the current westbound main become a passing siding as Dave Foxx mentions, with the new eastbound main being where the passenger shelter is now (essentially along a line connecting the existing outer sidings) along with a full pair of crossovers for the mains would be ideal.  I would not add yet another crossover on the Spruce Creek side because I don't think it's needed (although I am usually not inclined to disagree with David!).

So here's kinda what I'm thinking...



I'm also putting every siding and industry in play, hence the question marks.

[DKS]

[Dave V]

David,

Are those Atlas curved turnouts?

[DKS]

David,

Are those Atlas curved turnouts?

Yes, one each L and R; the rest are #5s, except for the one wye.