Modeling PRR 580/581

[randgust]

Toward the end of PRR passenger service the 'last passenger train' we had up here was the unnamed remnant of the "Northern Express", NYC to Philadelphia, Harrisburg, and eventually Erie.   It was combined with the Harrisburg-Buffalo train at the end, split at Renovo, PA where the Erie section tore off on its own.   Lost the lounge after 1964. 

I rode the train as a kid.   It only lasted until 1965, I think.   Wasn't really much of a train!

I'm doing a model of our now-demolished passenger station as a wide-curve Ttrak module, eventually destined for the Historical Society.   It needs a train in front of it. 

So I need a 580/581.   Not much.   The consist of the train toward the end was pretty stripped:   A single E-unit, a baggage/RPO, a 10-6 smooth-side pullman, and a smooth side coach (not a P70).   3 cars.  No diner.  Get off and grab a sandwich at Renovo.   When I rode it at about age 8 I remember there were three other people on it, two passing a bottle in a paper bag.  Literally.   And it smelled funny.   My father rode it to NYC in the 50's and had christened the train 'the Rattler" because the track was rough and everything in a Pullman was loose.

Nice shot of it here on TrainOrders if you are a member:  https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4233471

I scored a weirdo at Altoona, scouting around for a used Kato E-something in PRR and it was the white whale.   But over at Esther's table, I spotted a 'WTF' PRR E-unit, in, of all things, a Micro-Ace box.   Looked rather nice, it was a Micro-Ace, DC, took it to the test track.   Used unit, clean, ran excellently and a bargain price, picked it up.   Turns out this oddball was one of the rebranding Life-Likes according to Spookshow intended for the Japanese market.   On the box, it says "Made in Chaina", no kidding.  Engrish. 

I've already got a nice PRR baggage and baggage RPO.   But what's out there for a PRR smooth-side 10-6 and a streamline coach?   This isn't the Broadway, this was the most secondary abbreviated PRR train humanly possible.   What's 'close enough' here?   Bachmann?  Old Con-Cor?   Kato?   No idea what to scout for, I'm putting out a call to the SPF's to halp me on this one.   It's primarily for display, remember, in the local museum.   Best accuracy I can afford here.

[Mark5]

For the 10-6, you've got the old Atlas/Rivarossi ("Rapids" series prototype): https://trainweb.us/fredatsf/protopass5.htm

Or, from Kato's broadway limited (also "Rapids" series prototype): https://katousa.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/106Sleeper-1-1-1140x529.jpg

Or the 10-6 that Walthers did some years back ("Rapids" series prototype) https://www.ebay.com/itm/257652042893

The Kato and Walthers versions are quite nice, the Rivarossi very nice for 1970 era tooling.

[Jimbo]

@randgust :

Guessing that PRR must have switched from a prewar 10-5 to a postwar 10-6 at some point?  I have an old timetable (1958?) where it lists the Northern Express and the Southern Express having one 10-5 each.

Centralia/Intermountain did a 10-5; I think Rapido Trains did too.  Not sure if either are accurate for Pennsy.

Jim

[thomasjmdavis]

Centralia also did a P85 if that is usable for the 'not a P70' coach.

https://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/ccs/html/ccs6531.htm

Centralia/Intermountain did a 10-5; I think Rapido Trains did too.  Not sure if either are accurate for Pennsy.

The Rapido 10-5 is a different prototype than the Centralia 10-5.  The Rapido is based on a car that had the bedrooms in the middle of the car (better ride).  It was used by CN and Erie, and no doubt a few others.  Windows are different than the 40s era 10-5 represented by the Centralia model (which was used by a large number of roads in the 40s and 50s)

[Point353]

But what's out there for a PRR smooth-side 10-6 and a streamline coach?  What's 'close enough' here?   Bachmann? 

Here's a Bachmann coach:



https://willishobbies.com/products/n-scale-85-smooth-side-coach-prr-4292-022899142562

[randgust]

I was being generic about the pullman as a '10-6' as I know it had roomettes because my father told me it did.  As not a card-carrying SPF, I don't know PRR car types to that detail.

But for appearance, that Atlas / Rivarossi is 'close enough' for me.   I didn't know Bachmann did that coach.   That's the kind of input I'm looking for here.   The module for all this consists of a T-track wide curve, that's all, and it can only hold a locomotive and three cars anyway!

I've got a good 'end shot' of the train showing the coach but can't read the car number.   The pullman had skirts on it, the coach did not.

Believe it or not, I rode it on a school trip for my entire class right before discontinuance.   There were 13 of us and the three 'old guys' already riding coach that my teacher was trying to keep us away from as they were apparently drinking.  The conductor commented that this was the most people he'd had on the train for quite some time.

I later found out my Dad arranged the entire thing and paid for the trip for the school.

[Point353]

I didn't know Bachmann did that coach.   

FWIW, this link is to a photo of a PRR coach #4292 (same as the Bachmann model) which appears to be a modernized heavyweight car (unlike the Bachmann model).
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr4292.jpg

[randgust]

OK, got the Rivarossi "Rapids" pullman.   Had no idea that was actually accurate.

Still struggling with the coach.   That Bachmann one is nice but probably pricey unless I find a used one as this is display only.

The one blurry image I have I can't read the car number.   It's definitely not the smallish windows like on the Centralia.  One stripe above and one belt rail stripe, black roof   End pair of windows looks like the Bachmann though.    The Con-Cor looks surprisingly close if the skirts were cut off, no big deal for me and the price is sure right.

Many of the Bachmann cars have the 'fleet of modernism' scheme with multiple stripes and that's sure way off.   I'm not even finding the car that has the 'normal' scheme anywhere.

[Mark5]

I would aim for the ConCor coach, there were probably a few million run over the years, and as you pointed out - the price is right.

The ConCor coach should go well with the Rivarossi 10-6 (both have era tooling non-flush windows).

The Bachmann SS Coach also has 1970s style non-flush windows, but at an astronomical price.

[Sokramiketes]

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There's the circa April 1964 consist from Jerry Britton's site.

So, since you're needing a push to be more prototypical... since its for a museum and all...

BM70 (30 ft RPO section)  HO Example for Reference:
https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/168030/O-Brass-Model-PSC-15631-PRR-Pennsylvania-BM-70-RPO-Baggage-Car-Unpainted-Dae-Ha

P-70-KR coach  HO Example for Reference:
https://www.nkpcarco.com/prr_p70KR_mod_coach_display.htm

10-5 sleeper (Streamlined) Centrailia Car Shops N Scale:
https://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/ccs/html/ccs6841.htm

And a rash of B60 baggage cars.

[randgust]

I have multiple photos of the train in 1964-5 until discontinuance.   All were behind a single E.   By discontinuance in '65 (when it was most photographed) is was all a 3-car train.
Not being a Pennsy guy a "P-70 KR" was lost on me.   I looked it up and 'oh, that's what you mean'.   Could be comparing it to the photos.

There's one shot in Corry with the B60, the RPO/Bagg, pullman and coach.   Every other shot just has the RPO/bagg, pullman and coach. 

I have the B60 and the proper RPO, the Rivarossi 'Rapids' is on the way, looking at the Con-Cor smooth side but skeptical because so many of those schemes were painful foobies.   I'm not sure what the Baggage RPO was in all the photos I have, but it didn't have double wide doors - only one wide and one single.   Model I have looks solid like it.

From Jerry LaBoda's old side (page 5) https://www.trainweb.us/fredatsf/protopass5.htm the Con-Cor smooth-side coach makes no notice of PRR, for all they cost it may be 'close enough for now' if I cut off the skirts and the color isn't completely awful.   I've had several of the Con-Cor cars, and other than the absolutely terrible wheels and trucks 'usually' look 'OK' if you paint the glossy black roofs flat.   I had two CC baggage cars on my "Fast Mail" that were fine after I changed out the trucks.

I had a CC diner that was so awful and horribly incorrect I sold it.   So some are OK and some are....not.

So, now I 'think' that I can compare the P70KR drawings and floor plan over to the CC car I can make a decision here.   This is the help I was looking for, that 580 consist is something I NEVER saw before on Jerry's site.   Those brass KR sides do match the photos I have of the one side of the coach, so that was the assignment I see.

This poor little train was emblematic of the 60's and PRR.   By 1965 I'd ridden the Super Chief to LA as a kid and never looked back much at PRR until now, for the local historical society museum.

I also remember 'unrebuilt' P70's, which I rode in even earlier as a child, when PRR ran the last special train up the Salamanca Branch due to the construction of the Kinzua Dam.  Walkover seats and windows that could open, and plenty of photos of that train.

[Point353]

Many of the Bachmann cars have the 'fleet of modernism' scheme with multiple stripes and that's sure way off.   
I'm not even finding the car that has the 'normal' scheme anywhere.

Did you try the link to Willis Hobbies (below the photo of the car) in my previous post?
It indicates that they have two of the cars in stock.

[Point353]

P-70-KR coach  HO Example for Reference:
https://www.nkpcarco.com/prr_p70KR_mod_coach_display.htm

To get the correct car ends, should those sides be installed on a heavyweight model such as from Micro-Trains or Rivarossi (Atlas/Con-Cor/Arnold)?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Freaking 580/581.

I don't know how long I've had to sit in the hole waiting for these damn things on Steven Mallery's layout.

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Plus it doesn't have the charm of the Erie branch train.

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[Sokramiketes]

To get the correct car ends, should those sides be installed on a heavyweight model such as from Micro-Trains or Rivarossi (Atlas/Con-Cor/Arnold)?

Yes, or more specifically a P70 heavyweight coach from Broadway Limited.  70' long rebuilt heavyweight cars.