Fun with Foobies...defending the not quite right

[dem34]

The Stand ins versus strict model is the route I keep leaning toward these days. If I make something from scratch, yeah that thing is going to be accurate down to the rivet. But if I'm making a string of sand hoppers that sit in the middle of a train, they can live with slightly incorrect hatches and a quick weather pass.

[Dave V]

And that's why I'm OK with running almost 20 Micro-Trains "H31" hoppers all out of proportion to the much, much, much more numerous GLa hoppers of which I have far fewer from Bowser. Because in a moving train from 3 feet away, a circle-keystone 2-bay hopper is a circle-keystone 2 bay hopper. What matters is how it rolls and whether it looks suitably dirty.

I think I now have almost every road number MTL did for Pennsy in a 2-bay hopper.

[Sokramiketes]

It is a big gap, NGL. But given that the inside curves on a standard T-TRAK layout are a mere 11", it's a necessary evil.

Oft repeated, but not true!

You can move the 1015's inboard and they will still work fine. 

nPossible's exhibit at NSE in Milwaukee further busted the myth by showing close coupled, scale couplers work with passenger cars on these radii as well!

[Dave V]

Oft repeated, but not true!

You can move the 1015's inboard and they will still work fine. 

nPossible's exhibit at NSE in Milwaukee further busted the myth by showing close coupled, scale couplers work with passenger cars on these radii as well!

Haven't tried that yet. I'll consider it!

[randgust]

The MTL cars with all body-mounts don't play well with old Rivarossi's at all, particularly on 11" curves.   I changed almost all the Rivarossi's over to body mounts, added steps, and closed up distances on those as well as change the wheels out.  I've got a couple cars with truck mounts on one end and body mounts on the other to work as transitions for those other cars that still have truck mounts, but even those were changed over to Red Caboose dummies in the original Rivarossi boxes - short shanks fixed the distance problems on those as well.

Back 'in the day' I experimented with folded black construction paper diaphragms.   I was astounded how well they worked and how good they looked in a coupled train, looked stupid when standing uncoupled.   I've got AMI on many cars, but they really can't be physically touching on layouts with sharp curves or on a reverse curve crossover.

[Iain]

If I put together a reasonable standin for a named train, but used locomotives that while correct for the railroad were not run in that geographic region, is that a foob?

[Dave V]

If I put together a reasonable standin for a named train, but used locomotives that while correct for the railroad were not run in that geographic region, is that a foob?

I think that's subjective. What I consider a foob in my own world is something that I'm deliberately using, knowing it's not correct, while other, more correct options are available.

Case it point; I could do this mail train with all correct Pennsy equipment... An R50b express reefer, two X29 express boxcars, 3 B60b baggage cars, 2 BM70M RPO cars, and a real P70, all cars I have sitting on a shelf in the train room (well, one of the B60bs is unbuilt).

But I'm choosing to run this because it's fun too.

Your definition may differ.

[thomasjmdavis]

If I put together a reasonable standin for a named train, but used locomotives that while correct for the railroad were not run in that geographic region, is that a foob?

These things are all a matter of opinion, of course, but it seems to me that such a locomotive selection would also qualify as a stand in.  And, for that matter, there are many examples of railroads themselves making locomotive substitutions on occasion, and often there is an odd photo here or there of the railroad doing exactly what you are doing.  Essentially, even if it never happened, it is entirely plausible.

I suppose if it was completely overboard- like using a Big Boy to pull a 3 car local out of Kansas City, it might qualify as foobie, but any reasonable substitution like a loco assigned to the western division used on a train on the eastern division, would be a stand in.

And, speaking for myself, in these days of $200 plastic diesels and $450 mass produced steamers, I have a limit into how many new locomotives I can buy just so I can satisfy the 3 potential visitors who might know that XYZRR train #6 was 'always' pulled by F3s 84A and B.  If I already happen to own E7 72, that's probably what I'll pull it with.  If only because I've been waiting since 2008 for you-know-who to get around to actually doing the XYZ F3 paint scheme that they were advertising back then for $59.95 per unit.

[Dave V]

@Lemosteam ,

A quick glance at the Keystone Details spreadsheet didn't reveal the etched brass PRR replacement doors for the MTL baggage car... Are those still a possibility? Granted, I need to do the one I already had with the set I bought from you 10 years ago before I'd be ready to do 5 more, but still. Just wonderin'.

[Maletrain]

One of my per peeves are the manufacturers that paint USRA Heavy Pacifics to represent B&O "President Class" Pacifics.  The USRA trailing trucks instead of the Delta trailing trucks are a dead give-away, not to mention other details.

Now that BLI is making Delta trailing trucks for Pennsy locos, why not put them on their B&O painted Pacifics? 

While I will use one for a "stand-in", I still consider it a foobie.

[squirrelhunter]

One of my per peeves are the manufacturers that paint USRA Heavy Pacifics to represent B&O "President Class" Pacifics.  The USRA trailing trucks instead of the Delta trailing trucks are a dead give-away, not to mention other details.

Now that BLI is making Delta trailing trucks for Pennsy locos, why not put them on their B&O painted Pacifics? 

While I will use one for a "stand-in", I still consider it a foobie.

So I have worked on this, so a few thoughts on it:

I found out from other steam experts the PRR traing truck is cast and looks similar to a Delta trailing truck, they aren't a Delta type. For the purposes of this thread, they are close enough.

The big issue is the geometry of the trailing truck/frame on the Pennsy M1 4-8-2's doesn't match the geometry of the USRA light/heavy 4-6-2/2-8-2's. If you do a direct swap, it will lift up the rear of the USRA engine to the point the rear drivers won't touch the rail.

This can be corrected if you file/same down the tongue of the trailing truck where it screws to the frame a bunch. I can't remember off hand how thin it has to be sanded to, but it makes the screw hole very fragile.

The wheel diameter of the wheel in the PRR truck is significantly bigger than the USRA truck (I think scake 42" vs scale 33"), luckily you can swap the wheelset since the axles are the same length.

I needed some Delta type trailing trucks for several engines, so I ended up having a guy who does 3D printing I know design a copy of the BLI PRR trailing truck with the correct geometry for the USRA locos.

I asked BLI at a train show to sell "modernized" USRA locomotives with Delta trailing trucks, and suggested they offer oil bunker and Vanderbilt tenders as well. Their reaction was total disinterest. The vibe I go was they think their locomotives are God's gift to the hobby, so why change perfection?

[Lemosteam]

@Dave V PM sent.

[delamaize]

I've kinda adopted the "Does it feel right" mantra these days. If other people can say "Hey, That's the (insert thing you're modeling)" then you are doing it right.
Well, also, I've always had the idea that if I like it, everyone else can piss off attitude. I won't hijack your post with pictures of my close enough ATSF fast mail, But it's really an exercise in "Close enough." Maybe I'll start my own thread when I get off work tomorrow.  Speaking of that, I'm surprised how hard  it is to find heavyweight baggage cars in ATSF, with as popular that railroad is. Assuming I win the auction I am bidding on now, I still need 2 more ATSF heavyweight baggages to finish my fast mail.

[thomasjmdavis]

Speaking of that, I'm surprised how hard  it is to find heavyweight baggage cars in ATSF, with as popular that railroad is. Assuming I win the auction I am bidding on now, I still need 2 more ATSF heavyweight baggages to finish my fast mail.

I think it is because the road is so popular, that you have a hard time finding baggage cars.  The only (semi-) accurate one is the old Rivarossi, which is a little short (the prototype was a rebuilt baggage-lounge that was longer), and it was a white elephant one car prototype.  Although, I have several, renumbered to represent some other rebuilds from the same timeframe.  But even those, that were $4 brand new 50 years ago, and $5 to $10 in the used market until recently, now-a-days have asking prices north of $20.

And MTL only did one or two cars in ATSF lettering, other than their own stand-in/foobie Fast Mail set.  And people are loath to break up those sets.  So... not much in the way of supply.

Unfortunately, no one has ever done plastic versions of the standard ATSF heavyweight cars of which there were hundreds, and which like NYC and PRR cars, were found in express trains for many roads.  I tried downloading some sides to print- but they had so many open vertices and manifold errors that neither my slicer or blender could deal with them all, and the prints, while identifiable as baggage car sides, failed for any use I might have for them.  I have a few more M&R side sets that will hopefully yield more future baggage cars, and hopefully Atlas will do a big enough run of MTL cars in the future that there will be some availability for cores and stand-ins.

You can (if you haven't already) include some PRR, NYC, Erie, maybe even an occasional ACL car to stretch your train if you have a shortage of SF baggage cars.  They all showed up frequently in Fast Mail consists.

[delamaize]

I think it is because the road is so popular, that you have a hard time finding baggage cars.  The only (semi-) accurate one is the old Rivarossi, which is a little short (the prototype was a rebuilt baggage-lounge that was longer), and it was a white elephant one car prototype.  Although, I have several, renumbered to represent some other rebuilds from the same timeframe.  But even those, that were $4 brand new 50 years ago, and $5 to $10 in the used market until recently, now-a-days have asking prices north of $20.

And MTL only did one or two cars in ATSF lettering, other than their own stand-in/foobie Fast Mail set.  And people are loath to break up those sets.  So... not much in the way of supply.

Unfortunately, no one has ever done plastic versions of the standard ATSF heavyweight cars of which there were hundreds, and which like NYC and PRR cars, were found in express trains for many roads.  I tried downloading some sides to print- but they had so many open vertices and manifold errors that neither my slicer or blender could deal with them all, and the prints, while identifiable as baggage car sides, failed for any use I might have for them.  I have a few more M&R side sets that will hopefully yield more future baggage cars, and hopefully Atlas will do a big enough run of MTL cars in the future that there will be some availability for cores and stand-ins.

You can (if you haven't already) include some PRR, NYC, Erie, maybe even an occasional ACL car to stretch your train if you have a shortage of SF baggage cars.  They all showed up frequently in Fast Mail consists.

That makes sense really, Although I am not really looking for "Correct" More like Believable.

I had read that PRR and NYC though baggage cars were common, and I have 2 right now. a PRR and a NYC, both are the newer Bachmann 72' smoothside cars, which are foobies, but good enough for what I'm trying to do. Adding Erie and ACL to the list of possible cars does help. Heck I found a 3D file for a PRR X42 in HO, and I did see one of those in a consist in the late 50's in one video. I messaged the artist, and asked if he could resize it to N scale, or at least give me permission to have a friend who does 3D modeling help me resize it. So, if he's game, I'll probably add an X42 also. I'd like to have a B60b, but those kits seem to be rare as hens teeth these days.