Why does ESU still make the Micro?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

After fighting to get one in an SD45 (it fits, but just), I have to wonder: in a world where they have the Nano, why does ESU still make Micros?

[Steveruger45]

Would like to see the reliability stats of them both in comparison.

[peteski]

The only LokSound nano is the one with E24 connector, and it can only be used as a plug-on with an adapter. The wired adapter makes is much too thick in many N scale applications.  LokPilot micro is tiny!

[Ed Kapuscinski]

The only LokSound nano is the one with E24 connector, and it can only be used as a plug-on with an adapter. The wired adapter makes is much too thick in many N scale applications.  LokPilot micro is tiny!

They definitely have a Next 18 version too. I've got one on my desk.

[peteski]

They definitely have a Next 18 version too. I've got one on my desk.

That "nano" is larger than the E24 nano (due to the Next18 connector) and still requires an adapter. The "nano" nomenclature ESU uses is confusing since the actual decoders have different dimensions.

To me the smallest decoder available should have its soldered directly to the decoder for very tight space installs. If ESU made a wired nano similar size to the E24 nano (with slightly longer board to include pads for attaching wires), it would be an ideal connector. 

[TW877]

That "nano" is larger than the E24 nano (due to the Next18 connector) and still requires an adapter. The "nano" nomenclature ESU uses is confusing since the actual decoders have different dimensions.

To me the smallest decoder available should have its soldered directly to the decoder for very tight space installs. If ESU made a wired nano similar size to the E24 nano (with slightly longer board to include pads for attaching wires), it would be an ideal connector.

The Next18 nano decoder (59828) https://www.esu.eu/typo3temp/pics/18692b8e1c.jpg does not need a connector board, the Next 18 plug is directly on the decoder itself. If you intend to wire it into a loco then you need to use an adapter, thats true. The Next 18 nano is slightly wider than the E24 nano at 9.5mm vs 8.5mm but a little shorter, owing to the connector dimensions.
The Next 18 nano was the answer as to the Next 18 micro being a little too wide for a number of hood locomotives, namely the Atlas SD45. Scaletrains had no issues with them, so it was more of a poor design by Atlas IMHO.

Chris

[peteski]

Chris, I'm well aware of the purpose for the Next18 connector (or any other similar DCC spec connectors designed for plug-n-play installs).  The problem is when one looks for the physically smallest decoder the overall dimensions  (including the thickness) are very important. It is important for those tiny decoders to have plain wires for those super-compact installs in small models. 

But the small ESU decoders like the nano do not have a version which can be wired directly.  They conveniently supply a wired-in adapter boards with connectors which mate with those larger and bulkier Next18 or E24 decoder. That added thickness of the adapter makes them unsuitable for those very compact installs.  To me ESU made a poor choice when they discontinued making their smallest decoders with directly attached wires.  ZIMO still makes such decoders, but they are nto as usable for modelers modelign North American prototype locos (and their software for sound uploading and customizing the setting is nto as intuitive as ESU's LokProgrammer, although I believe they are slowly getting there with KLUG and some 3rd party software).

That's why I bemoan the lack of very small wired ESU decoders.  Which this might not exactly be what Ed was asking here, his post made me make that comment.

Upon further reflection I now think that Ed was wondering why the micro decoder with Nex18 connector (board size  21mm x 10mm) is still made when the Next18 nano with on-board Next18 connector is 15mm x 9.5mm.  I guess that is a good question. Of course both micro and nano also feature multiple adapters (6-pin, 8-pin, PluX16, and wires), but those make the decoder much bulkier (thicker).

[JeffB]

To me ESU made a poor choice when they discontinued making their smallest decoders with directly attached wires. 

Well that's unfortunate...  I don't get the decision making process of manufacturers at times.  Maybe they looked at the stats on what they sell more of and figured modelers want plug and play in higher numbers than wired (cause, you know, in this day and age soldering is hard for most modelers) decoders.

Jeff

[TW877]

Chris, I'm well aware of the purpose for the Next18 connector (or any other similar DCC spec connectors designed for plug-n-play installs).  The problem is when one looks for the physically smallest decoder the overall dimensions  (including the thickness) are very important. It is important for those tiny decoders to have plain wires for those super-compact installs in small models. 

But the small ESU decoders like the nano do not have a version which can be wired directly.  They conveniently supply a wired-in adapter boards with connectors which mate with those larger and bulkier Next18 or E24 decoder. That added thickness of the adapter makes them unsuitable for those very compact installs.  To me ESU made a poor choice when they discontinued making their smallest decoders with directly attached wires.  ZIMO still makes such decoders, but they are nto as usable for modelers modelign North American prototype locos (and their software for sound uploading and customizing the setting is nto as intuitive as ESU's LokProgrammer, although I believe they are slowly getting there with KLUG and some 3rd party software).

That's why I bemoan the lack of very small wired ESU decoders.  Which this might not exactly be what Ed was asking here, his post made me make that comment.

Yes, now I got your point. It wasn't just about the Next 18 Nano, but more about a small, directly wired decoder

Upon further reflection I now think that Ed was wondering why the micro decoder with Nex18 connector (board size  21mm x 10mm) is still made when the Next18 nano with on-board Next18 connector is 15mm x 9.5mm.  I guess that is a good question. Of course both micro and nano also feature multiple adapters (6-pin, 8-pin, PluX16, and wires), but those make the decoder much bulkier (thicker).

My guess would be that the Micro supports Motorola, Selectrix and M4 protocols while the Nano is DCC only.

[peteski]

Yes, now I got your point. It wasn't just about the Next 18 Nano, but more about a small, directly wired decoder
My guess would be that the Micro supports Motorola, Selectrix and M4 protocols while the Nano is DCC only.

Yes, I never really thought about it. Duh! The nano is DCC-only (no multiprotocol version is offered).  The description on the ESU site does state that.

As far as the Next18 board size (100mm vs. 9.5mm), it is not Atlas but ESU who made the error.  The standard Next18 decoder width as defined by NMRA is 9.5mm (not 10mm). the 9.5mm decoder fits fine in Atlas narrow hood locos.
See https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/DCC/S/s-9.1.1.5_next18_next18-s_decoder_interface.pdf

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Anyway, back to my original question: what purpose does a a Micro version of the same decoder that's available in Nano form serve?

[peteski]

Anyway, back to my original question: what purpose does a a Micro version of the same decoder that's available in Nano form serve?

I guess that answer got lost somewhere in the conversation.

The ESU LokSound micro is available in the multi-protocol version as well as in DCC-only, while the nano is not available in the multi-protocol version, just DCC-only.

Then there is also LokPilot micro which is a really tiny decoder and available in both versions, while LokPilot nano is just available as DCC-only decoder.

DCC-only is mainly geared for American customers who do not use any of the alternate European digital control systems, only NMRA DCC standard.  DCC-only decoders also cost few dollars less than the multi-protocol versions.

[jdcolombo]

To follow up on Peteski's conclusion - it's a market differentiation thing.  Note ESU's description of the Nano on their web site:
The LokSound 5 Nano DCC decoder is a pure DCC decoder. The LokSound 5 Nano DCC is made for the North American and Australian markets.
The Nano was developed for the US/Australian market and in ESU's mind, at least, is a different product from the Micro, which is a "world wide" decoder product.  We may question the logic, but as Peteski points out, there is no multi-protocol version of the Nano.

While I don't know the European N-scale market at all, it is at least possible that some European-prototype engines were essentially designed for the Micro in its "plug in" (no wired interface) version, and may not easily accommodate the comparable Nano (although the Nano is nominally smaller, the connector location is different).  Who knows?  Sprechen sie deutsch??  If so, ask management 

John C.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I guess that answer got lost somewhere in the conversation.

The ESU LokSound micro is available in the multi-protocol version as well as in DCC-only, while the nano is not available in the multi-protocol version, just DCC-only.

Then there is also LokPilot micro which is a really tiny decoder and available in both versions, while LokPilot nano is just available as DCC-only decoder.

DCC-only is mainly geared for American customers who do not use any of the alternate European digital control systems, only NMAR DCC standard.  DCC-only decoders also cost few dollars less than the multi-protocol versions.

Ahh yes, it did.

I didn't realize multi protocol was even a thing! Thanks!

Now it all makes sense.

[peteski]

John, the LokSound 5 and LokPilot 5 micros do come with a wired interface.  Wile LokSound version is unfortunately just a Next18 decoder with a wire adapter. the LokPilot version is a very tiny (8mm x 7mm) decoder with wires attached directly for super compact installs.



I just don't understand why ESU chose not to have direct wire version of their LokSound 5 decoders, while ZIMO still makes a tiny sound decoder with wire interface. Well, it was likely a money saving decision.