HogTrainz DO NOT Preorder!

[nscaler711]

So I am sure some of you are aware that Intermountain just dropped the SD45-2s in N finally.
Well NSE announced that they were going to do a special run of the 45-2s in ATSF Bicentennial and the only place you could preorder at the time was HogTrainz.
What I do YEARS AGO? I PREORDER IT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY.
Fast forward to the 29th, I get an email demanding payment, I reply back asking if he could hold it as I was in-between pay periods and a new job. He tells me that there are no guarantees that he can hold it even for a week.
I wake up to day with the payment request canceled.. and just so happens they are sold out of the one I pre-ordered. 


F Paul.
Bring back Pete. Never had any problems emailing Pete to hold an item.
RiP BLW.

[Dave V]

I'm not sure I understand what they did wrong. The pre-order is a commitment to paying when the item shows up. It sucks that we often don't know when that'll happen...I've had pre-orders I've forgotten about suddenly be charged years later (or sometimes an email saying the card I pre-ordered with was expired since it's been that long). I don't personally think it's fair that they should have to hold it for you if and when you can muster the money, since they would just have to take your word for it that you'll eventually be good for it.

Maybe other hobby shops would have done this for you in a different era, but I still think that's not how pre-orders are actually supposed to work. Sorry this happened to you but I don't think the hobby shop is at fault here. Just my humble opinion.

[nscaler711]

I'm not sure I understand what they did wrong. The pre-order is a commitment to paying when the item shows up. It sucks that we often don't know when that'll happen...I've had pre-orders I've forgotten about suddenly be charged years later (or sometimes an email saying the card I pre-ordered with was expired since it's been that long). I don't personally think it's fair that they should have to hold it for you if and when you can muster the money, since they would just have to take your word for it that you'll eventually be good for it.

Maybe other hobby shops would have done this for you in a different era, but I still think that's not how pre-orders are actually supposed to work. Sorry this happened to you but I don't think the hobby shop is at fault here. Just my humble opinion.

I have had no problems with local LHS or other retailers that offer pre-orders in the past or present.
If you walk in to your LHS they or at least near me generally can hold the item till people are able to pay.
A week was all I was asking...
but sure whatever Im in the wrong here I guess.

[Dave V]

I have had no problems with local LHS or other retailers that offer pre-orders in the past or present.
If you walk in to your LHS they or at least near me generally can hold the item till people are able to pay.
A week was all I was asking...
but sure whatever Im in the wrong here I guess.

So you believe you're owed a grace period then? I'm not sure what other businesses operate that way. But if that's been your experience in the past, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you this time.

[nickelplate759]

I'm not sure I understand what they did wrong. The pre-order is a commitment to paying when the item shows up. It sucks that we often don't know when that'll happen...I've had pre-orders I've forgotten about suddenly be charged years later (or sometimes an email saying the card I pre-ordered with was expired since it's been that long). I don't personally think it's fair that they should have to hold it for you if and when you can muster the money, since they would just have to take your word for it that you'll eventually be good for it.

Maybe other hobby shops would have done this for you in a different era, but I still think that's not how pre-orders are actually supposed to work. Sorry this happened to you but I don't think the hobby shop is at fault here. Just my humble opinion.

Legally, maybe nothing.    But treating @nscaler711 like someone they never want to hear from again is both rude and poor business.

[Dave V]

OK, then I guess I’m wrong then. I didn’t know this was a thing.

[learmoia]

So I am sure some of you are aware that Intermountain just dropped the SD45-2s in N finally.
Well NSE announced that they were going to do a special run of the 45-2s in ATSF Bicentennial and the only place you could preorder at the time was HogTrainz.
What I do YEARS AGO? I PREORDER IT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY.
Fast forward to the 29th, I get an email demanding payment, I reply back asking if he could hold it as I was in-between pay periods and a new job. He tells me that there are no guarantees that he can hold it even for a week.
I wake up to day with the payment request canceled.. and just so happens they are sold out of the one I pre-ordered. 


F Paul.
Bring back Pete. Never had any problems emailing Pete to hold an item.
RiP BLW.

Isn't this what Credit Cards are for?... Charge it and pay it when the bill comes due in 30-45 days... or don't and pay the interest..

Or if your a debit card person.. keep money in savings to cover your pre-orders..

~Ian

[Point353]

OK, then I guess I’m wrong then. I didn’t know this was a thing.

You're not wrong. As said in the following post, either use a credit card or set aside the necessary funds when the preorder is originally placed.

[Dave V]

You're not wrong. As said in the following post, either use a credit card or set aside the necessary funds when the preorder is originally placed.

I mean, that’s what I do. But what I’m saying is that I didn’t know most hobby shops let you wait to pay on a pre-order until you’re ready. I always assumed that the “contract” was that you pay on arrival. That’s what I’m saying I must have been wrong about.

[mu26aeh]

As my LHS boss says " I'm not here to finance your railroad"

[Rivet Miscounter]

I didn’t know most hobby shops let you wait to pay on a pre-order until you’re ready. I always assumed that the “contract” was that you pay on arrival. That’s what I’m saying I must have been wrong about.

I think you're both right.   

Yes, that is the way it works...contractually you pay when the bill is due.

But it's also true that this is why you value relationships.   As a business, if you can't have the capacity and flexibility and courtesy to accommodate your customers for 5-6 business days, you're probably not doing things right.   This isn't "I'm not willing to hold up my end of the bargain", it's "hey the timing for this doesn't line up at the moment, but I'll be able to send the money shortly" and a customer that is actively communicating and engaging with you.  I understand that this particular relationship wasn't exactly cultivated, and that does make a difference here.   But hey, there's a perfect opportunity to gain a customer for life.

Same thing about relationships is true in reverse...if a shipping department gets backed up 3-4 days, I don't think you as a customer should go nuclear.   Especially with a special run like this, you have to know that you're playing with fire risking not paying for the item when it arrives.   And posting a thread with this title is also not the best way of going about things.   

But at some level, when you place a preorder you have the expectation that the timeframe for the execution of this agreement is reasonable.   Part of that is you don't want to get in a scenario like this, where it's been so long that your situation has changed significantly.   So in the example of the credit card expiring, right there you've probably indirectly asked for a 2-3 day extension by the time the card declines, the notification is sent, you actually read the notification, you go in and add the new card, it gets popped the second time, etc.   So yeah, taking a hard stance after a multi-year delay....come on.

Not having ANY grace in a transaction like this is poor customer service, at best.

[Rossford Yard]

Like others, I can see both sides of this.  However, I lean to the LHS, mostly.  As some have said, if you pay by credit card, you automatically get up to a month extension, and I suspect most, not all, of us have and use CC for these transactions.  When I had employees, I never issued them credit cards for business expenses, due to many instances of fraud I didn't want to deal with.  One employee always wanted to be reimbursed for his travel expenses placed on his personal card the minute he got back, but why?  It never cost him any money, unless it happened to be the bill was due the day he got home.

It seems to me that most LHS and the mfgs in general are pretty flexible.  I have pre-ordered and when it came, I simply didn't want it.  One example was an experimental BNSF scheme Atlas produced years ago that I didn't catch in ads that had different stuff on both sides, i.e., the true one off (not in the good way like a Bi centennial scheme would be).  The shop accepted my decline to take it with grace, although I am sure they had a line of others to buy it.  Is the flip side of that not holding stuff on occasion for the pre-orderer?

The part I really side with the LHS is that it's a tough business, and the old joke about the "check is in the mail" probably has to be considered by them.  As customers, we may occasionally be short on cash, but my assumption is that the LHS is chronically short on cash but long on memory of people who stiffed them (in their opinion).  I would also be sympathetic to them for any one off bad transaction and only complain on forums if it was a repeated offense, and thus quantifiable as bad customer service.  Of course, I realize that someone who pre-ordered several years ago, perhaps when the shop was owned by someone else, probably cannot establish that pattern based on one transaction.

And, knowing this will sound snarky, but if this is the biggest first world problem we face in our lives, we should consider ourselves extremely lucky.  Also, while also rude (apologies) hobbies cost money, and hobby costs typically affect the less affluent more and the more affluent less.

But, it is a discretionary purchase, and I say this feeling (I think) about FOMO in model railroading as much as anyone else here.  However, I realize that with EBay and other outlets, the ability to get those missed on arrival items is probably better than it has ever been.  At least, unlike some others seem to be, I have never, to my recollection, ever missed out on something I really wanted, even without pre-ordering.  Or, as Casey Stengal Yogi Berra?) would say, "It ain't over 'til its over."  Hopefully, Nscaler711 will find one soon enough, and due to the acquisition delay, it will become an even more cherished model than it would have been.  Yes, I have been told I am too optimistic......

[C855B]

My solution is simple: pre-order from a shop, online or LHS, that has a longstanding rep for honoring pre-orders. Like NSS. I've had pre-orders from unreliable importers like Intermountain in their system for 4-5 years, and are reliably delivered once fulfilled. My credit card is charged on shipment, with notice if it has expired and the opportunity to correct.

Again, simple.

[basementcalling]

This is why I hate the reservation method of buying model railroading supplies, but I do have to say, Hog Trainz reservation policy is crystal clear.

From their website

When the items arrive – they will be charged and immediately shipped to you! If you are using paypal – you must deposit .50 in order for system to accept the reservation. Charge cards will be charged .50 – which will be applied to order when shipped

No reservations with checks will be accepted unless payment in full is made and is received by us before 5the posted closing date

All reservations that are shipped and returned by customer will be charged a 20 percent restock fee

Customer’s who do not pick up what they reserve will be banned from future reservations.

A reservation is a commitment to purchase

Reservation status remains in effect till delivery – however – no guarantees after manufacturer’s closing date

A

[learmoia]

@nscaler711 are you a regular HogTrains Customer?   Or is this your first purchase with them because it was the only way (besides ordering from NSE directly) to get these?

If your are (were) regular customer with Hog Trains, I get your gripe...

If this is your first order with them and you were unable to pay I think they are 100% in the right..

Legally, maybe nothing.    But treating @nscaler711 like someone they never want to hear from again is both rude and poor business.

I get the feeling that N scale is a small portion of HogTrains business as a favor to his brother..... And from his viewpoint.. an new N scale customer that won't pay for their order is probably someone he doesn't want to hear from again..

I guess the moral of the story is... If you really want something from NSE... Order it directly from NSE.   (The people there might know who nscaler711 is )

~Ian