Kato announces CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr in N scale

[CBQ Fan]

Based on spookshow’s website the original Con-Cor PZ MSRP was $379 in 2006 vs Kato’s 2026 version at $244 when you compare lighted versions head to head. Feel free to fact check me there. I bought the 2011 release with the 4th car and additional headlight for around $350 if I recall correctly.

[Sokramiketes]

I'm guessing it's the 9 3/4" curse at work.

Spookshow confirms the ConCor operates flawlessly on 9-3/4" radius too though...

[nstars]

I do indeed think the Con-Cor Zephyr aged quite well. But with the right tools (and experience) the Fine-N-Scale Zephyr also transformed into a great model. I took a picture about 18 years ago with the Fine-N-Scale at the front and the Con-Cor at the back.




Marc

[peteski]

I do indeed think the Con-Cor Zephyr aged quite well. But with the right tools (and experience) the Fine-N-Scale Zephyr also transformed into a great model. I took a picture about 18 years ago with the Fine-N-Scale at the front and the Con-Cor at the back.

I bought the Fine-N-Scale kit and after couple of years sitting assembled I noticed that the resin shells visible shrunk no longer mated properly with the floors which had the fiberglass/epoxy PC board cores embedded in them.   I exchanged some emails with Dick B. and he might have sent me some replacement shells which IIRC also were smaller than the floor pieces. He mentioned that he has never seen that happen. It was long time ago - don't recall all the details.  Also, the resin he uses has a strong mothballs-like odor (not my favorite).  Needless to say, the kit still sits unbuilt, buried deep under many newer projects.  I have also witnessed other kits (made from that stinky resin) shrink over time.

[chessie system fan]

I wonder if the larger gap on the Kato set's front truck is larger than on the Con Cor version because of Kato's penchant for sprung trucks. Compare the gap between the pilot and the rails on both models. I could be wrong given the photo angles, but I wonder if the Kato model is a little nose high because there is too much tension on the spring or too little weight in the model?

[pmpexpress]

Based on spookshow’s website the original Con-Cor PZ MSRP was $379 in 2006 vs Kato’s 2026 version at $244 when you compare lighted versions head to head. Feel free to fact check me there. I bought the 2011 release with the 4th car and additional headlight for around $350 if I recall correctly.

While the twin headlight Zephyr is not listed on their site, Walthers shows a $449.98 MSRP for the Con-Cor stock number 8730 (1934 Pioneer Zephyr 3-Car Train - Standard DC - Undecorated Silver without Lettering), a $398.98 MSRP for the Con-Cor stock number 8731 (1934 Pioneer Zephyr 3-Car Train - Standard DC - with Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy Lettering), and a $439.98 MSRP for the Con-Cor stock number 8732 (1934 Pioneer Zephyr 3-Car Train - Standard DC - "Silver Streak" 1934 Movie Version with DVD.

Trovestar shows a $449.98 MSRP for the Con-Cor stock number 8732 (1948 Twin Headlight Pioneer Zephyr 3-Car Train - Standard DC - with Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy Lettering).

The MSRP for the lighted Kato model is approximately 46% lower than that of the Con-Cor releases.

[CBQ Fan]

While the twin headlight Zephyr is not listed on their site, Walthers shows a $449.98 MSRP for the Con-Cor stock number 8730 (1934 Pioneer Zephyr 3-Car Train - Standard DC - Undecorated Silver without Lettering), a $398.98 MSRP for the Con-Cor stock number 8731 (1934 Pioneer Zephyr 3-Car Train - Standard DC - with Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy Lettering), and a $439.98 MSRP for the Con-Cor stock number 8732 (1934 Pioneer Zephyr 3-Car Train - Standard DC - "Silver Streak" 1934 Movie Version with DVD.

Trovestar shows a $449.98 MSRP for the Con-Cor stock number 8732 (1948 Twin Headlight Pioneer Zephyr 3-Car Train - Standard DC - with Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy Lettering).

The MSRP for the lighted Kato model is approximately 46% lower than that of the Con-Cor releases.

When you factor in inflation the Kato unit is a steel!  Your numbers make it even more so! 

[NorsemanJack]

When you factor in inflation the Kato unit is a steel!  Your numbers make it even more so!

Yes, and when you factor in Kato quality, it is blatant, highway, theft!

As a CB&Q fan, I struggled mightily to not pull out my wallet for the Con-Cor release.  Right, wrong or indifferent, I at one point in time made the decision to only buy Kato.  I eventually sold all Atlas and IMR and, as of today, am 100% Kato (except for the MT freight cars).  That said, I'm really no longer a model railroader.  I'm an armchair fan with some valued treasures, many of which may never see track again.  I do set up the UniTrack for my 8 year old grandson and we run some trains.  That's good enough...

Many of you will someday join me.  Others not.  It's all good.  For those who choose to downsize and wind up like me, I STRONGLY recommend looking into the complimentary hobby of railroad book accumulation.  I probably spend ten or fifteen hours a week with my Morning Sun and Four Ways West books and Emery Gulash videos (mostly Green Frog).  Unfortunately, Green Frog closed up shop last fall and Morning Sun no longer publishes new books  Get 'em while you can.  Or, wait until they become like beanie babbies and folks will pay you to take them away.  I fear that, like many of our trains, a majority of these treasures will wind up in a landfill in the next ten or twenty years.

[Sokramiketes]

I bought the Fine-N-Scale kit and after couple of years sitting assembled I noticed that the resin shells visible shrunk no longer mated properly with the floors which had the fiberglass/epoxy PC board cores embedded in them.   I exchanged some emails with Dick B. and he might have sent me some replacement shells which IIRC also were smaller than the floor pieces. He mentioned that he has never seen that happen. It was long time ago - don't recall all the details.  Also, the resin he uses has a strong mothballs-like odor (not my favorite).  Needless to say, the kit still sits unbuilt, buried deep under many newer projects.  I have also witnessed other kits (made from that stinky resin) shrink over time.

Yep, all that urea in the casting resin that Dick Billings uses.  I've had PRR round roof shells shrink more than their underframes, making banana shaped car bodies.  Some have been ok for years, and the bad ones I assume had an incorrect mix ratio and weren't stable long term? 

[peteski]

Yep, all that urea in the casting resin that Dick Billings uses.  I've had PRR round roof shells shrink more than their underframes, making banana shaped car bodies.  Some have been ok for years, and the bad ones I assume had an incorrect mix ratio and weren't stable long term?

Sounds like a logical explanation. I'm glad that someone else confirmed that the problem exist.

[arbomambo]

[Ed Kapuscinski]

This reminds me of one of the things that highly amused me when touring the prototype in Chicago: the fact that HALF of the "revolutionary passenger train" was devoted to mail, express and baggage really tells you a LOT about the reality of passenger service profitability.

[thomasjmdavis]

This reminds me of one of the things that highly amused me when touring the prototype in Chicago: the fact that HALF of the "revolutionary passenger train" was devoted to mail, express and baggage really tells you a LOT about the reality of passenger service profitability.

There is certainly some truth in what you say, Ed.  But... keep in mind, these trains were designed and inaugurated in the depths of the Great Depression.  Rail travel was a small fraction of what it had been in the late 20s.  In addition to testing "revolutionary passenger train" technology, these consists were designed to handle mail runs (and a few passengers) at a much lower operating cost than a steam powered train hauling 2 or 3 cars.  The early Zephyrs were comparable to a motor car and trailer- but faster, and with better accommodations giving  the option to sell seats at a higher fare- as with "business class" in modern airline terminology. 

[pmpexpress]

How close is this to the Flying Yankee? The CC models were too expensive to cut up, but if these are in line with their bullet trains, I can see kitbashing one.

Although they’re somewhat similar, unlike the CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr, toward the rear of the car body, each side of the Boston & Maine 6000 Flying Yankee power unit has three large rectangular windows that are followed a single square window behind the passenger door, a square window in between the passenger and baggage compartment doors, and a high name plate board.

While it’s also a three unit consist, instead of an Baggage/RPO car, the Flying Yankee has a coach car with a single square window toward the rear and seven large rectangular windows that are divided by a passenger door on each side.

In addition, with two large rectangular windows toward the rear, which are directly behind the passenger door and a small square window that is followed by four large rectangular windows toward the front of the car body, the window arrangement of the Flying Yankee’s observation car sides also differs.



Partially Restored B&M 6000 Flying Yankee In 2000 at Lincoln, New Hampshire



Partially Restored B&M 6000 Flying Yankee In 2000 at Lincoln, New Hampshire



Partially Restored B&M 6000 Flying Yankee Observation Car In 2000 at Lincoln, New Hampshire

[Stolen Moment]

The train has been moved from Lincoln to the south end of the North Conway Scenic RR.  There are still hopes and dreams of restoring it.