Looking for camoflage ideas

[NtheBasement]

I've finalized the installation of four IR sensors and emitters that control the flood loader. The sensors in back will be inside a building, but I'm looking for ideas on what to do about the four emitters that are in front of the layout at the edge of a cliff. I could do a real skinny building but I think it would look silly. Possibly some old ruin. Tried decorating with foliage but it looked fake.

[garethashenden]

Is it on the edge of a cliff? It kinda looks like it is. Can you extend the rocks upward so that the track is in a little bit of a cutting?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

If it's appalachia, I think you're onto something with the greenery. But the trick is that you just need to add more of it.

If it's flat, there should be trees. That entire ridge could be covered in kudzu. etc...

[ednadolski]

Possibly some old ruin.

Maybe something like this?  (facing the aisle)



Ed

[Scottl]

Could the emitters be moved to the loader edge?  A small building or even a wall might look ok.

[Lemosteam]

A ground level billboard?  Not unrealistic for someone to think there might be a road at the bottom of the cliff lookin up at a billboard.

[OldEastRR]

There's actually two pieces you need to camoflage, right? I see the second board in the background. Since the sensor lenses needs to be open the choice for that camouflage would probably be a deserted building with empty windows along the area where the lenses can be pick up the beam yet still be hidden. The front one should be in a stand of tall trees.

[nkalanaga]

The one in the back could be disguised as an old. weathered, concrete pier, from an earlier mining structure.  For the front, I like the idea of a billboard, maybe advertising the mining company's location.  Not unusual in Appalachia, where the mines, and miners, were proud of their facilities.

[NtheBasement]

You guys are awesome!  I already have a building for the sensors in back but never thought of either the billboard or cliff idea.  For sure the whole layout could use more greenery but I don't want it to block operations.  Might be time to See Rock City.

[peteski]

Those LEDs and photo transistors seem rather large.  There might be smaller parts available to replace those, and also maybe use thinner wires?  Then the whole unit could be easier to hide. With 4 emitter/detector pairs they are probably sensing not only presence of rolling stock but the direction of travel?

If they are used to sense trains at the flood loadre why are they spaced so far away from it?  Couldn't they be installed right on the flood loader structure?  I'm also curious about how they work. Usually the detectors have to be shielded from ambient light and these seem to be fully exposed to the rooms lighting (and light from the adjacent sensor LEDs).

[John]

Does the sensor need to detect the outside track, or must the cars passing under the loader?

[mecgp7]

I think you can hide the sensors and add to the story of your railroad. Something that suggests a history or story. I can picture a long since retired wall or base of concrete with bent rebar sticking out which suggests that at one time something was there. [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[NtheBasement]

Those LEDs and photo transistors seem rather large.  There might be smaller parts available to replace those, and also maybe use thinner wires?  Then the whole unit could be easier to hide. With 4 emitter/detector pairs they are probably sensing not only presence of rolling stock but the direction of travel?

If they are used to sense trains at the flood loadre why are they spaced so far away from it?  Couldn't they be installed right on the flood loader structure?  I'm also curious about how they work. Usually the detectors have to be shielded from ambient light and these seem to be fully exposed to the rooms lighting (and light from the adjacent sensor LEDs).

I don't know what emitters are compatible with the Azatrax units but they are huge.  The sensors are not an issue, only the emitters.  They control the dumper and not the track in front.  They don't need to be far away (previously the sensors were closer but the camouflage lbuilding was too close to the loader), but I have to have good access to the track.

Here is what is going on.  The loader valves are moved in tandem by a tortoise.  The upper valve fills the measurement bin, the lower controls the chute to the hopper.   The lower opens about 2/3 of the way thru the tortoise stroke, after the upper has shut.  The upper bin volume determines how much coal will be dumped so no dump cutoff is needed.

The tortoise is driven by an Azatrax DPDT relay.  The DPDT relay is controlled by four Azatrax MRD1-V train detectors, timing set to minimum.  The sensor outputs are wired in series for cross-track sensing such that coal dumps only if all of them are blocked, and if any are unblocked then the bin fills.

The problem I had was one of timing.  Turns out loose pieces of coal stick to the dumper surfaces and get knocked down the chute when the valves move.  That makes the wheels go bumpty-bump and the rotary couplers occasionally go off center, causing a derail.  So refilling the bin has to start while the chute is still over the back of the hopper that is being filled.

Dumping has to start when the front edge of the hopper is 1/16th inch or more in front of the chute.  Otherwise the pile under the chute will overflow off the front of the hopper.

The gap between cars needs four emitter/sensors spaced 7mm apart to keep the tortoise from dumping too soon or the bin to reload too late.  Any farther and there will be a point where no sensor is blocked while the chute is over the couplers.

Ancillary details: each sensor only reacts to the specific emitter that is wired to it.  The other three are ignored.  The sensor/emitter pairs are so narrow beam that if I set them too low the hoppers' support struts or the brake wheel will throw them, so they have to be high up.  Oh, and the gaps differ slightly depending on hopper manufacturer.

The Azatrax units can also be wired for under the track mode, where the IR gets reflected off the bottom of the car and hits the sensor.  However, this is not precise and I can't count on it triggering at a specific point.  Spacing is also an issue as they have to be emplaced at a 45 degree angle.

On thing that occurred to me that I didn't look into is a mirror - embed the emitters in the ground pointing straight up, hit a mirror that is at 45 degrees and bounce the IR to the sensors.  That would make the emitters easy to hide.

[peteski]

The mirror idea is interesting but alignment might be tricky.

I also  now recall that you have mentioned these sensors here in the past.  Each emitter must be sending pulses of light at a frequency only one sensor responds to.  That is pretty clever and makes them immune to ambient light which is not strong enough to saturate the sensors.

You mentioned that the sensors are smaller than the emitters. Why not reverse their locations so the emitters are at the edge of the layout and easier to hide.  As I  mentioned using thinner supports and even thin magnet wire would make them much easier to camouflage.

I still do not grasp why they have to be at the edge of the layout (even outside of  the track that is not under the dumper). Why not install them close to  the dumper structure and camouflage them as a part of the dumper structure or even some sort of a signal or electrical box?

Also, do the emitters look like standard 3mm or 5mm LEDs with clear cases?

[NtheBasement]

The sensors are not an issue because they are easily hidden in a structure.  In a previous incarnation they were much closer to the loader.  So close in fact that the building crowded the loader, leaving little room for heavy equipment to access the loader.  The core sensor is probably the same size as the emitters but they are coated with a black rubbery substance to shield against incident light, and required drilling larger holes in the plastic holder than the emitters did.  Per instructions they can be up to 18 inches from the emitters.

If I put the emitters between the tracks I won't be able to watch the scene as well.  Same reason that I went with an open steel structure instead of a poured concrete silo with a tunnel.  There is less room between the tracks than at cliff's edge so camouflaging them would also be more difficult.