Hey Porter!

[randgust]

(mild salute to the Johnny Cash song).... but this is the other Porter, the industrial locomotive company from Pittsburgh.

One of the oddest, and longest surviving locomotives on my 'home logging road' was a little Porter tank engine, that saw it all.  It was an 1899 build, CN 1931, which left Porter as an 0-6-0.   Just exactly what happened and how is a significant guess, but it didn't stay that way.

At some point, it fell through the little wooden truss Hickory Creek Bridge and landed upright in the creek, about a 10' vertical drop.  Several poor photos of the event taken.  I've heard it was sent back to Porter for repairs, and came back.... as an 0-6-4, with a trailing truck added under the coal bunker, which according to the Porter book, was the only standard gauge 0-6-4 they ever built.

It was the original beater engine.  It took hits, dents, worked in the woods pulling log trains with link and pin couplers.   It lasted right up until the railroad closed for the scrapper in 1938, a 39 year career.  It outlasted 3 shays and a 4-6-0.   My father photographed it in 1938:



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/wd3.jpg

That little guy, named the "G W Warden" was well photographed.  Seemed to be a favorite in the woods.   It lacked air brakes, and that trailing truck was absurdly tiny. But a model of it?   Holy smokes, that's a rough one.

I had enough success on modifying the Atlas (Micro Ace) 2-6-0 into a winner for HVRR Lima #5 I decided to attempt that chassis as I could extend to the back.   Should work... right?
But pickup was a HUGE problem, with the traction tires on the rear axle.  I needed to have all-wheel pickup.  So lets swap out the rear with center axle and take off the traction tire.  Oh, seemed like a good idea until you realize the gear is on only one axle, so swap the wheels.  And the trouble starts.  Work and work to get the quartering right...sorta.

The brilliant part, if there was one, was using an old Bachmann 4-4-0 tender truck as the tiny trailing truck, and it could be made 'hot' with 4x4 pickup and some phosphor bronze spring pickup wires to the split frame.  It worked. 

Got far enough to even consider doing a kit, so I went all in and made a cast boiler for it, by hacking up an old Atlas 0-6-0 (Roco version) which was a Porter, scratchbuilding wood sides on the plastic Atlas cab, and doing some serious testing....



link:  http://www.randgust.com/HVR3008%20stack%20test%20view.jpg

But then I hit some MAJOR snags.   First, with that Micro-Ace drive, it was just too fast for a logger.   My  2-6-0 had a tender gearhead drive and was a huge success. This didn't cut it.  I want creeping speed, great pickup, handle tight curves, and pull hard.   And worst of all, it still had a hitch in it from me messing with the wheel swapping.   Try as I might, it still had a hiccup.  AND, admittedly, it was just probably too big.  I didn't know how big, but it was big.

So all the way back to 2010, I set it aside and worked on other stuff.  Never went any further.  Neat engine, but my rules are that if it doesn't run well, it's not worth finishing, and swapping the wheels was WAY over the skillset of anybody but me, and I failed.

Then, the lightning bolt hit with Chris333's work on his Nn3 Porter tank engine with the Toma drive.  When I saw the video, and how small it was, and how slow it ran, it was a 'holy crap' moment.  So here we go, Chris and I have a long history of collaboration, mostly me learning from him, and he did the impossible on that one - he MADE a new RP printed frame just to move the big Toma spur gear up closer to the drivers.   Do that stunt on a standard gauge, and you might be able to fit the trailing truck....maybe?   Still in amazement I contacted Chris333.

So off we go.  I'll tip you off that I wasn't going to post this thread until I was absolutely convinced I had a new winner this time, there are still things to solve, but it sure looks like a happy ending.

[chessie system fan]

🍿 🍿 🍿 🍿 🍿

[randgust]

As Chris fessed up on what he had done, I knew this was a major project.  He could mimic his successful Nn3 frame to standard gauge and print it for me.  I had to get my own Toma parts.  And the chassis wasn't available separately, so you get the whole darn locomotive kit, a side-tank Porter.  One bit of luck was that I got it in direct from Japan before all &*%%$ broke loose on the tariffs and mailing.  Got it June 18.

And do to Chris' frame, you DESTROY the stock Toma frame as the worm gears and spur gear are permanently mounted,and to get it out and shorten it to fit Chris' idea, you attack it with cutters and reset it all.  No looking back.  And remount the worms, and the end spur, on a new shaft.  Whoa.   

Out of the box, the chassis from Toma ran very well, but I could see that that tiny wheelbase on my logging modules sswitches was a fail, as the wheelbases were shorter than the insulated portions of the old Trix curved switches I use.  So that trailing truck had to work (again).   Whoa.  Well, no sense stopping now.  But the slow speed and torque was spot on.   I took my Dad's photo and shoved it sideways in Photoshop to try to figure out dimensions.  I got the Porter book and found out that the "C-S" class 'probably' had a 9' wheelbase.  My first try was predictably, way bigger.   

Then I got a real curve ball from Chris.  He actually knew a museum in Canada that had the Porter locomotive blueprints.  I knew the CN, so maybe, just maybe, they would have actual drawings?  We'll I'd found my 2-6-0 in the California State Museum Library, why not try this one?

[Point353]

As a basis for this model, did you ever consider using an old AHM/Lima 2-6-4T - with the pilot truck removed?

[randgust]

Nope, way, way, way too big.

The next part of the story is that Chris found Porter drawings in Canada.   I contacted them with the CN# and was STUNNED to discover they had a side elevation drawing, which I paid for and was digitally sent to me.  OMG, that was it.  That's Hickory Valley 3.   Now I had full drawings:



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/HVR3013drawing.jpg

And that was also the 'holy crap' moment, because the Toma wheelbase and driver diameter were spot on.   9' wheelbase.  Man, that's small.   And the trailing truck?  22" wheels on a 40" wheelbase.  Close enough.   This was much smaller than the Atlas.

So to agree with the drawings, I had to cut 18" out of the tank and 12" out of the smokebox.....   I still had the plastic master I'd made for the tank and boiler, sawed that up, and laboriously reconstructed it to precisely fit over the new mechanism.  Chris' issues with it being too light were noted, so I decided to do it the hard way and make another solid metal casting out of the modified plastic boiler, using it as a master in rubber molds.   That added SEVERAL weeks, months, to the process here.

[basementcalling]

Was thinking you might be referencing the Mel Gibson movie where he plays a character named Porter who's trying to get his 70,000 back from the local mob.

[Chris333]

Still cannot believe they had those drawings. I'm thinking the rebuild into a 0-6-4 is why.

[randgust]

OK there's a whole lot of goodies in this shot, wade through it one at a time.



Link: http://www.randgust.com/HVR3012mech.jpg

OK, from the front.   

Chris printed out several adapted frames and parts.   Still can't thank him enough here.   In the front is one of the adapted N frames from his Nn3 Porter build.  The big difference is the 'housing' for the spur gear moved tight to the rear driver, remember you have a motor spur to a reduction spur, which turns a shaft with THREE worms on it inside the frame, all of which have to be set on the new shaft, and all adjusted to attempt to keep all the drivers in quarter with  each other.   That proved to be very difficult, and I kinda blew it the first time.   When I did finally 'get it' it developed a severe hitch and bind only to discover that one worm had slipped on the shaft.  Start over.    I finally took the rods off to eyeball just how they were all lining up and adjusted them on the axles instead of messing with the gears, just get them solid on the shaft and adjust that way.  But I still haven't put the rods back on.

Chris also printed a new retainer, and a rear 'cab deck' that I heavily modified to clear the trailing truck.  And I put an extension on it with styrene to hold the rear of the coal bunker in place.  That now has a couple 00-90 screws in it into the coal bunker from the bottom.  The precision that Chris is able to print to, as well as the smooth RP surfacing, simply astounds me.  The tolerances are exceptional, and he even tapped the holes for the replacement frame.  He is very much part of the project here and deserves equal credit throughout.

Next up is the actual mechanism.  Note the driver pickups.  I made replacement wire wipers to catch all six drivers instead of the outer two.  All wires come into the front (including the pickup wires from the trailing truck).  No headlight, this had kerosene only (no turbo, no air brakes).  The trailing truck is on a brass arm, and two .010 phosphor brass wires bent like an "L" contact the Bachmann holes and come up into the frame, that springs it down and also gently recenters it.   That also means I need a LOT of weight in the cab to make it effective.   It did come out to where the  trailing truck installed EXACTLY per drawing, and had sufficient vertical and swing clearance.  Whew.

I had to adapt the stock Toma cylinders to Chris' frame as his cylinders were for Nn3 and too narrow.  I discovered that an abrasive disk on the RP material instantly rendered it to dust, and after I got the hang of it, actually cut off very precisely with no damage.

All the way to the back is the original Micro Ace/Atlas mech, and you can see just how much bigger it was for driver size and wheelbase and you were 'stuck' on the motor/worm idea with no way to get a better reduction in there.  And the fatal flaw was driving the front drivers through the rods, any issues with quartering got multiplied.  The Toma drives every axle through a worm, the rods are purely cosmetic.  That's a solid mech concept.

The other thing this hints at is a new problem it created.  The actual locomotive deck height is only 34" off of rail head.  The coupler pockets (link and pin) are ABOVE the frame height quite a bit.  Checking with the coupler height gauge, the coupler box had to be cut into the tender bunker and right level with the TOP of the front frame sill.  So I had to put brass sheet on the front for the Z coupler and build the wood sills under it.  Look at the prototype photo, it's pretty obvious how low the frame is and the coupler box is partially higher and the rear one did go above the sill into the bunker.  Wow.   Didn't see that coming but got around it.

My primary oddball contribution dates back to the early years of the Climax A projects, when I discovered that the rubber molds for resin casting that I had developed for the boiler accepted Type 160 cast metal with excellent precision and no mold damage.  It takes some additional design, but it is as easy to produce a cast metal mold if a master can be produced, and in this case, it's significant weight.  As I already had the plastic master hacked up from the previous attempt, and Chris had difficulty loading up his RP printed tank and boiler with tungsten chunks for weight, I decided to go for cast metal for the entire boiler and tank, even if it wasn't as sharp and pretty as Chris' results.   I'd also made a master for the Radley and Hunter stack that was on nearly all the HVRR locomotives (even if they were coal burners, not wood) as nothing else in N was made with it.   

[chessie system fan]

By happenstance, I just came across this. Change the tank location, and your method would be a great way to model this Louisiana sugarcane beauty. 

Catherine Factory- J Supple 1 Bayou Goula LA Porter 4969 later Godchaux 7 12-21-47 CWW neg LRS Coll 6117 by Tony Howe, on Flickr

Catherine Factory- J Supple 802 Porter 4969 Bayou Goula LA 11-50 RC Grey neg LRS Coll 6123 by Tony Howe, on Flickr

[randgust]

I've gotten as far as rough-fitting everything together.   The object at this point is to get everything assembled so I can fit in and balance all the additional weights.   Tank and boiler fit is really good, that worked well.  As the rear truck is sprung, weight has to be added in the cab to balance the weight back on the drivers.   While I used a modified master, this is not the boiler and tank that were on the Atlas drive.    The crystallization patterns on the metal casting look strange, but the surface is actually pretty good.

But at least on the workbench track, the performance so far is excellent and the trailing truck pickups work well. 

I got the brass running boards mounted, did brass because that's the natural 'grab point' on the locomotive and anything less would take damage. 

The 'steam dome' was actually in the cab, poking through the roof, with the whistle and safety on it, so the cab will not be that open.  Boiler came well back.  And the bunker in the back was all coal, with a rear cab wall of sorts.  Both domes were sand domes.  Water hatch and bell in the middle.

Late add:  With the cast boiler, cab floor weight, cab roof weight, and cast coal load it's coming in at 52.1 grams or 1.84 ounces.   Same weight as a Kato NW2



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/HVR3011.jpg

Chris was digging around and also sent me that incredibly beat narrow gauge 0-6-4.   There were three more for Mexico that looked like HVR 3, but they were also narrow gauge.     Even smaller than mine.

[randgust]

Well, tonight was test run night.  Put it on the modules and see how it does.   Wow, it's pretty good, I'd give it a 9.5 on 10.

Slow speed is just excellent.  The pickup truck works, I had to take some tension off of it.  AND, I still needed to add even more weight to the cab.  With that done, it consistently navigates my Trix curved switches.  Setting that is a compromise between getting good contact or creating too much drag, and not putting enough weight in the drivers. 

The big surprise was tractive effort.  After those changes, it can handle four loaded log cars up my 4% grade, and that puts it in the 'good' group of the Heisler and the Atlas Shay.  I already have three other locomotives that can only handle 4 empties so that's good.   Torque is excellent too, it doesn't skip a beat even at full slip.  Doesn't buck going downhill, a typical disease of direct worm to axle gearing designs.

So, this is a MAJOR 'whew', because if this was a 'fail', then that's the end of this project, it's where the Atlas project came to a grinding halt and got parked.   

The pickup truck will remain 'fussy' and likely take regular cleaning, Conductalube, etc.  But it does work.   Without it this wouldn't work at all on my modules.

[nkalanaga]

Since the truck sideframes hide nearly everything, have you considered sliding track wipers to help pickup?

[randgust]

Only time I ever tried track wipers goes back to the original Atlas FM diesel from the 70's.   Yuck.
Too much drag, maintenance.  Not a believer in N.

With conductalube and the right tension, the Bachmann trailing truck does roll rather than slide, and getting 4 loads up the hill without slipping was the goal here.   So it's now meeting my rather unrealistic performance expectations, call it a win and keep moving.

I'm surprised it works as well as it does, because that was the unknown here.   That 9' driver wheelbase puts it entirely in the insulated portion of a Trix R1/R2 curved switch, so it's up to the trailing truck to save it from stalling.   And putting tension on that pickup truck reduces tractive effort, lifts the rear driver, so you rack everything up with more lead to compensate.

So with that beat, the next major item is to reinstall the rods.   When the worms slipped on the shaft the last try everthing went to crap and it was a tear it down to the drive and do it all over, including pulling the motor.  I think (?) I've got it good now by eyeballing, but the tolerances on the rods are pretty darn tight.

I can hardly wait until I get past all the mechanical and performance shakedowns so I can start actual modeling modifications on this thing.  It needs a lot, detail will be fun as well as finishing.  One of my favorite (and true) details is the bent up handrails across the back of the bunker from log loading hitting it.  And the siphon hose.  And a missing builders plate, as well a no number plate or lettering.  Ever.  Must have fallen in the creek!

Update:  In prep for the rods, decided to paint the frame, wheels, anyplace I can't easily reach after I put the rods on.   And the front coupler was running tilted and high.  Well, two steps forward, one back.  In the effort to re-align the coupler, snapped the cylinders in half.  Reglue with ACC, seemed to work.  Adjusted coupler.  Painted all that and called it a night.  Did some of the modifications to the cab in finishing the rear wall, extending the rear cab roof edge, adding the ventilation hatch.   

[randgust]

Well, I'll admit my heart was in my throat on this one, mostly because if I was even a little bit off and it started binding in the rods, start over.... or park it.  And the hex screws on the drivers are microscopic.   
Put on a left rod.   Tested, OK
Put on a right rod.  Tested, OK
Put on a left main rod, crosshead, piston rod.   Tested....OK!
Put on a right main rod, crosshead, piston rod... tested.......OK!

Holy crap, it actually worked.  Unlike my first attempt that slipped the worms and jammed up the rods and resulted in a complete fail, this time is a go.

Now I can finally have some fun.  Detaling this thing   Hard part is over.   I need to make a video of this thing, it's rather astounding.  Owe it to Chris.

[Chris333]

I have a pair of 5x glasses I used to put those tiny screws in.  I remember when I could do it without anything