Advanced Consisting Loksound Decoders

[nscaler711]

So I am in need of help, I have recently lost a laptop and my computer interface for my MRC Prodigy Advance² and it has made it impossible to consist Loksound equipped locomotives. It doesn't help that ESU decided to be one of the hardest Decoders to consist without their programmer. 
Of which I also do not own. (Please don't tell me to go out and buy it either have way too many things that are "needed" first.)

On the PA² consisting locomotives is as easy as this, Press [CONSIST] button, screen: Cons SET. [ENTER]  Cons # (type 3 digit number [ENTER]  LOCO ADD (Type loco address) [ENTER]
LOCO ADD (type address, you can also change the locos heading here by toggling direction) so on so forth. This all works flawlessly(ish) on other brands of Decoders. Soundtraxx especially. I have 0 issues with Tsunamis.
However, I go to run the locomotives, I have lighting and associated functions, but I do not get sound functions. I get fx8 and 9 (which is great btw.)
You can even do the old consist set which is essentially the same, but the system will not remember consist after you power it down. On the Old consist, I do get the Lead locomotives to respond to sound functions. But I can only use this for one consist.

Before I lost the laptop and Computer interface, I had no trouble at all using MRCs software to consisting loksound Decoders.
Well mostly no trouble... If I blow the horn they all sound their horns same with the bell... I can live with that... Eh maybe somedays.

Now again bear in mind I'm not running out and buying a lokprogrammer. I have tried looking videos up and reading on a few forums that would load and 90% were all JMRI, or the Programmer. The other 10 was Digitrax and confused the hell out of me. Hexcidecimal system. Bah!   
I have a Prodigy Advance² as that has been by far the easiest learning curve for me, so until they go under and I can no longer buy parts I'll end up sticking with them.

Thanks for reading my incoherent rambling and possibly helping me.

[peteski]

Advanced consisting is all contained within the decoder (but the command station has to set it up and be aware of it).  Well, the details depend  somewhat on what brand DCC system you are using. Not familiar  with MRC system.

I  also don't see how  LokProgrammer would be any more helpful in setting up advanced consists (since the command station of your DCC system needs to be involved).

I don't understand what you mean by "I get fx8 and 9 (which is great btw.) ".

Advanced consisting is defined by NMRA specs and it consists of three CVs: 19, 21 and 22.  ESU handles those the same way as any other decoder. ESU does also have CV109 and 110, but those are for mapping functions F15-30 (which aren't really used at this point).

If in your consisted ESU models the lighting (physical) functions work, but no sounds are audible, that sounds like the F8 function is not being properly set up in the advanced consist. 

When a decoder is in advanced consist, you can still address it by its "real" address and control all the functions. I'll be curious what happens when you have them in a consist (and silent) when you address one of the locos using its "real" address then press F8. Will that start up its sounds?

Some ESU sound projects have the F8 default config reversed from other sound decoders (sound is muted when F8 is on).

[nscaler711]

So what I mean is I still get Start up/Shut down/Mute in Function 8, and Drive hold as function 9 still works, I'm basically not getting any other sound functions. Horn, bell Dynamic braking etc. All lighting functions still work and and Drive hold still works.
The old consist works as it should but like I said it's a pain to set up a consist every time you power up the DCC system and it's only good for one consist.

Now if I have the locomotives in a consist I can still call on one of them and control the sound functions individually, but I can no longer control the speed. They kinda act like they don't know which locomotive is the "lead" locomotive and ignore whatever sound function that isn't relevant to the lead.

I have messed with CV 19 as I know that's the Consist address CV, but I never played with CV 21, 22. I'm guessing they operate like 17, 18 where I know some math is needed.

[Tad_T]

If you’re thinking of replacing your computer interface, you could also consider the MRC WiFi module.

[jdcolombo]

A bit more explanation of Peteski's post.

When you set up an advanced consist, you program CV19 with a unique address.  Once you do that with EACH engine in the consist, then those engines respond to speed and direction commands at the consist address.  So say you program CV19 in each engine with a value of 20.  Now when you select the address 20 on your throttle/command station, each engine will respond to the speed/direction controls on the throttle.

BUT . . . in order for the consist to respond to function commands (e.g., F0, F1, F2, F8, etc.) you also have to program CV's 21 and 22 to tell the decoder WHICH commands it will respond to using the consist address.  ESU LokSound 5 decoders come from the factory with certain default commands already programmed in CVs 21 and 22.  But these may not be what you need, or may have been changed by other programming.  So the best bet is to figure out which Function commands you want ALL engines in the consist to respond to, and then program CV21 and CV22 accordingly.

CV 21 controls whether Function Keys F1 - F8 (note, NOT F0, which is lighting) respond to consist address.  Here is a link to a handy table on the TCS web site that tells you what value to enter in CV21 to control which functions.

https://docs.tcsdcc.com/wiki/CV_21

You simply add the values of the functions you want controlled by the consist address to get the number you need to enter in CV21.  Suppose, for example, you want to be able to turn on the sound (F8), turn on the bell (F1) and blow the horn/whistle (F2) on ALL the engines in the consist.  Look at the table, and add the values for F1, F2 and F8 together (1 + 2 + 128 = 131) and enter the total in CV21.

CV 22 works the same way.  It controls F0 forward, F0 reverse and F9 - F12.  Here's the table of values for CV22:

https://docs.tcsdcc.com/wiki/CV_22

Once again, add up the values of what you want to control, and enter that sum in CV22.  For example, if you want ALL the engines in the consist to respond to F0 (both in forward and reverse) and F9, add 1+2+32 = 35.

You do NOT need a LokProgrammer to do this.  Any command station that will allow you to direct program CVs (either on a programming track or on the main via ops mode programming) will work to do this.  However, you have to remember to do it for EACH ENGINE in the consist (and EACH ENGINE must also be programmed with the consist address you have chosen in CV19).

All this is VERY cumbersome.  Some command stations simplify the process of using Advanced Consisting.  Personally, I don't use it at all.  Instead, I simply set any consisted engines to the same physical address.  If the physical address of my lead engine is 482, for example, then I program all the engines in the consist to address 482 (I have to remember to also program any engine running in reverse for reverse running at that address).  Then I don't have to worry about CV's 19, 21 and 22.  It does make it harder to "break up" consists during operations, but if you rarely do that, "hard" consisting by programming each engine to the same physical address works pretty well. 

John C. 

[peteski]

Yes, RTFM about advanced consisting (CV21 and 22), or finding  some good online tutorial will help in understanding how it works.  Once you understand, it is not all that mysterious. It is similar to how like decoder's standard function mapping CVs work.  Basically CV21 and 22 remap decoder's functions to be accessible through the consist address. Having some understanding of binary numbering system helps in understanding how it works (both standard and advanced consist function remapping).

I have not found an online CV21-22 calculator, but Digitrax has a somewhat useful explanation: https://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB923/cv19-cv21-cv22-advanced-consist-addressfunction-co/

Some DCC systems (like NCE) figure out and automatically write the CV21 and22 values when you are setting up the advanced consist. I have no idea if MRC system does that.  Sounds like it does not handle CV21 and 22 automatically.

Assuming that the other models which work correctly in the advanced consist use  the same function assignments ar the ESU decoder, a simple thing to try would be to read out values of their CV21 and 22, then write those values to the ESU decoder (but of course read and record the original values from the ESU, in case you want to go back to the original settings).

Or tell us what are the functions you want to be controlled by the advanced consist address and we can figure out the values in CV21-22.

The LokProgrammer simply asks you what functions you want enabled in advanced consist  and figures out the CV21-22 for you. I guess that is easier than figuring it on paper, but it is not as magical as one would think.



You just check the appropriate boxes and LokProgrammer will figure out the CV21-22 values.  As shown, those are the defaults for Atlas RS-3 loco with LokSound decoder.  Notice thatF1 and F2 are not mapped to respond to the advanced address.

I guess one way to solve the problem would be to enable all the CVs up to F14 to respond to the advanced consist address.  For that just set both CV21 and 22 to 255. Again, first read and record their original values so you can restore them back to those values if needed.

[nscaler711]

@jdcolombo and @peteski thank you both your information has been invaluable. I did actually get it figured out and it has made consisting a few sets so much easier.
I did some poking on Digitrax and found a calculator with a few other important CVs as well.

https://www.digitrax.com/support/cv/calculators/

I know the MRC does automatically assign a Consist address to CV 19, but I guess it doesn't set up 21,22 which is ok, but I really hope we get a new one in the future, (Granted it'll be over $600 with the way MRC prices things.     ) that has more features and maybe built in wifi? Plays with JMRI a little better? Who knows....

@Tad_T That is going to happen. I have plenty of phones to use as a throttle. What I don't have is a couple hundred dollars for more throttles.