The Next HOn3 Effort

[Dave V]

Just starting a thread to get my ideas down before they fly away...

This may be a Captain Obvious moment, but the one downside to choosing a specific segment of the RGS to model is that I didn't get to model all the other cool bits of the Colorado narrow gauge. Other favorite spots include the D&RGW Silverton Branch high line, the D&RGW Chili Line branch to Santa Fe, the D&RGW in Black Canyon of the Gunnison, and the C&S on the Georgetown Loop.

I noticed something about all my fellow club members in SlimRail... Every one of them has a Colorado or New Mexico narrow gauge home layout, but every one of them (except one) is freelanced. Not like custom-lettered freelanced, but just freelanced vignettes that look familiar. Only one of them did what I did, which is attempt to model a prototype segment of one of the actual lines. The other club member has modeled a faithful reproduction of the Silverton Railroad and Silverton Northern circa 1910-1920-ish, with all handlaid track (including mostly stub switches). Those other guys--all very accomplished modelers and every one of them better than me--have basically just modeled their favorite aspects of the narrow gauge and yet effectively tied it altogether into a cohesive whole...no small feat for any one modeler, and yet they've all done so.

I feel like a "bucked the system" a bit with my version of the RGS, eschewing the stacked track and vertical rock walls we often associate with HOn3 modeling. Oh sure, there a several modelers doing what I did, but exceedingly bigger and better. But I wanted to see if I could do it myself, and I did.

Now I'm dreaming of something more freelanced...along the lines of what I did with the N scale Colorado Midland. Vignettes of the flavor of the RGS and D&RGW, but not specific prototype scenes. I could add a steel trestle like the D&RGW cascade trestle of the famed Hell Gate Bridge on the Georgetown Loop. No more rolling stock and locomotive restrictions because "that one never ran on the RGS First District between 1938 and 1947." Hell, I could even finally have an excuse to buy a C&S 2-6-0 with its distinctive, narrow-gauge-synonymous Ridgway smoke arrestor.

I have no track plan in mind because this is the idea for the next house, which is a few years away and whose layout space is yet to be determined. But I think I can keep scratching my Pennsy itch--even in Pennsylvania--with T-Trak modules. And I think I'd regret abandoning all of the work I've done in HOn3 and the extensive fleet of HOn3 equipment Ive amassed. I could probably stand to downsize my fleet a little though. And that would definitely help refill the layout construction coffers.

I imagine one end being high country with trestles and even sone track crossing track. A mine, a stamp mill, and an aerial tram to connect them. And a town (I keep coming back to the name "Scotch Creek" for a town, though the real thing was a tributary of the Dolores River the RGS crossed on a very short, low trestle below Rico) on a steep hillside. The other end would look more like the dry, high desert on the north end of the Chili Line. Still quite hilly and rugged, but with sagebrush, juniper, and rabbit bush instead of tall pines and aspen. And maybe an adobe structure or two.

Why not? We only live once. I did the hyper-prototype thing and it was fun, but this'll be fun too.

[Stolen Moment]

Why not do the modular or sectional thing?  Since it's familiar, use as much of TTrak as you like, season to taste with Free-mo, and you get complete freedom in arranging the pieces in whatever space you find yourself in.  You can build whatever tickles your fancy, and rebuild or scrap any module, any time, to suit your obvious "wanderlust".

A town here and there, connected by as-long-as-you-like stretches of single track winding through that gorgeous scenery you obviously enjoy building, and you have a setup that you can rearrange to suit your operational taste: long curvy mainline, a junction or two, with end loops work together to make a good roundy-round!

You can take a subset of modules to shows to display your work, without being limited to a single table-sized layout.  You can build a *straight* trestle that's the only thing spanning a canyon!

I can only imagine you'll come up with some great method of blending scenery across module joints that will benefit us modular types.

[Dave V]

Why not do the modular or sectional thing?  Since it's familiar, use as much of TTrak as you like, season to taste with Free-mo, and you get complete freedom in arranging the pieces in whatever space you find yourself in.  You can build whatever tickles your fancy, and rebuild or scrap any module, any time, to suit your obvious "wanderlust".

A town here and there, connected by as-long-as-you-like stretches of single track winding through that gorgeous scenery you obviously enjoy building, and you have a setup that you can rearrange to suit your operational taste: long curvy mainline, a junction or two, with end loops work together to make a good roundy-round!

You can take a subset of modules to shows to display your work, without being limited to a single table-sized layout.  You can build a *straight* trestle that's the only thing spanning a canyon!

I can only imagine you'll come up with some great method of blending scenery across module joints that will benefit us modular types.

I'm doing modular for my PRR work. I just feel like--for what I have in my head for HOn3--modular is too restricting. Moduler's not ideal for grades and complicated vertical scenes.

[randgust]

Makes perfect sense to me.   

I've been to Colorado enough to appreciate what you've done.  And while each line has it's own identity, there's also a 'generic' sense.   

I was always fascinated by the 'what if's, because the GB&L Clear Creek line had that planned tunnel west of Silver Plume past Greymont that never got finished.  There's a whole lot of ideas that never happened that would result in a nice imagineered railroad somewhat based on history but not 'hyper prototype' either.

Same thing with Silverton Northern; big dreams that never happened but a great basis for freelance 'what if'...

Even here in the east we had a BIG NG empire that wasn't EBT, the Tionesta Valley had 103 miles of track, interchanged with PRR and B&O, and lasted until 1943.   Just before WWII, this area was extensively documented in photos by Bob Richardson, yes, the Colorado Railroad Museum guy came from here.  It's a Rodney Dangerfield railroad, gets no respect at all.  No respect.

[Dave V]

^^^

This guy gets it!

[Dave V]

Banta Modelworks just released a stamp mill from Telluride.



While the prototype is (still extant and) at over 12,000 feet elevation and never rail served, I saw this and said:

1) This would be a perfect "generic" stamp mill for a freelanced layout that's big enough to justify several carloads a week and

2) How cool would it be to have an HOn30 line serve the upper portion rather than have it fed by an aerial tram like the prototype?

I have all the HOn30 I'd need... Two locomotives, cars, track, and turnouts.

I'd have the mine even farther up some distance away (like this one):

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

The HOn30 line would load up at the mine and chug over to the stamp mill, much like the real 2-foot-gauge Gilpin Tram fed the mills at Black Hawk and Central City, CO. The refined ore was then taken down the mountains to smelters by the 3-foot-gauge Colorado & Southern. There's prototype for that awesomeness!

Ooo, man, I'm finally feeling jazzed about HOn3 again! I'd been in a slump there since I built the Lizard Head snowshed.

[N Scale Train Boy]

That sounds both awesome *AND* fun! Always good to find something to get yourself excited about the hobby again!

[JeffB]

As a former HOn30 modeler (Maine Two-Foot prototypes though), I endorse the project!  Go for it Dave...

Jeff

[CVSNE]

Hi Dave,

I often describe my layout as "the way the Central Vermont SHOULD have looked" to folks who may be expecting a literal interpretation of the prototype. My late friend Paul Dolkos put it far more elegantly when he would tell people he looked as his B&M White River Division "... as a historical novel, not a history textbook." Sounds like you're reaching a similar point in your model railroad journey!

Marty

[Kiasutha]

Randy:
I wouldn't say the old Tionesta Valley gets NO respect; there are a few of us, but most folks have never even heard of it.
I've also had people confuse it with the Tuscarrora Valley RR, down EBT way.
It doesn't help that the only book I know of about it is pretty scarce; though Bob Richardson did a chapter on it in his book "Chasing Trains".

A good part of my family came from near the southern end; one worked for Clausons at Hallton.
The chemical plant there operated the line below Sheffield Junction until after "the war"; 1946 I think...
Back when I was younger, I walked or drove the old grades whenever I could get "home".

I'm another life-long  N-Scaler that's also been turning to HOn3 lately.
I don't know how practical the TV would be, and I'm torn between my love of it and the D&RG/RGS.
At 71, guess I'd better figure it out soon...   

Jim

[Dave V]

Hi Dave,

I often describe my layout as "the way the Central Vermont SHOULD have looked" to folks who may be expecting a literal interpretation of the prototype. My late friend Paul Dolkos put it far more elegantly when he would tell people he looked as his B&M White River Division "... as a historical novel, not a history textbook." Sounds like you're reaching a similar point in your model railroad journey!

Marty

Pretty much...

FWIW, I still have hard boundaries when it comes to freelancing. It has to follow typical RGS/D&RGW practice. Like, I'll be using my RGS trestle jig. And standard line side structures. Bridges will meet sound engineering practice. Geology will be believable and consistent with southwestern Colorado. And equipment will still be of a condition as to be serviceable under typical D&RGW practice. No crazy fantasy bridges or run-down sway-back stuff. I love me some Malcolm Furlow's earlier work, but I still believe that in order for it to look believable, it needs to be consistent throughout and and it needs to look like an operating railroad, and not something that's been abandoned in place.

[Kiasutha]

Dave:
Along side N and now HOn3, I've dabbled with HOn30 ever since the old Roco mini-trains when I was a kid.
I really like your idea of the 30" gauge "feeder" line. Not too "far fetched" either...

Jim

[randgust]

Kiasutha (and yes, I know the Seneca reference, the boat landing on the reservoir, etc.).....

It's a long story, but I 'found' Walt Casler's original manuscripts on "Tionesta Valley" and had them DONATED to the Pennsylvania Museum & Historical Commission, with Kurt Bell's support and assistance.   They are all safe, but have not been reprinted - same with "Sheffield & Tionesta", and "Allegheny Valley Logging Railroads" that I helped Walt with resources and photos at a tender age.

Ironically, I'm headed down to the EBT this week to take my grandson for his very first train ride.   The railroad recessive gene runs strong in him, I'm quite convinced I'm planting Foamer seeds here.

One of the reasons I've been intrigued by all narrow gauge (and there was a lot of it up here in NW PA) was the complete MESS of dual gauge track in Sheffield, PA, handling the PRR, Tionesta Valley, and Sheffield & Tionesta all in a rather compact terminal spot.   Those of you looking for an achievement award in the NMRA for track building don't need to look any further.  This is it.  Good luck.
https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,273507

I'm also headed out to Durango for a conference shortly, so that's two major 3' steam railroads in under 30 days.   

Dave, have you ever had a chance to meet Linn Moedinger, Strasburg retired CMO, major and extraordiary HOn3 modeler of Rio Grande and EBT?
https://www.scribd.com/document/515566370/Railroad-Model-Craftsman-January-2009-Malestrom

[Dave V]

Dave, have you ever had a chance to meet Linn Moedinger, Strasburg retired CMO, major and extraordiary HOn3 modeler of Rio Grande and EBT?

When I was younger, yes. But we also know each other through our mutual narrow gauge modeling.

[Kiasutha]

Randy:
Good luck with the EBT trip. I've no grand children, unfortunately my boy got the "computer bug"; not trains...
I've just come back from a few days at Clear Creek St. Park, and a trip down to see the Pennsy remains around Red Bank and Phillipston.
The railroad nuts way to turn 71...

No surprise you know the Kiasutha reference. Though I do have a Seneca cousin, my folks are all very old time PA. Germans.
The handle with the old Chief's name is from the ANF campground we liked, way back when I first got on the web...
BTW, we've met a couple times at the Altoona show. Sorry to say, I only get to spend a couple hours there...

It's really great you saved the Casler works! I hope we see them back in print one day.
I've 2 copies of "Tionesta Valley", and have almost worn out the one I was given by my uncle from Hallton.
And there's more about the late days on the southern end in "Tanbark, Alcohol, and Lumber"...
Those books started my narrow gauge interest. Then I ran onto the "BB&K", and a copy of "Narrow Gauge in the Rockies"...

That track at Sheffield is quite a nightmare, isn't it?
The dual gauge on the Hallton end (with the Clarion River RR) in and around Clawsons plant isn't as scary, but still interesting.
Modelling, I'd be drawn to that end I know best, but I'm also drawn to the small early rod locos too. A hard choice to make...

Regards,
Jim