Dressing up Digitrax n-scale signal masts

[spr1955]

I am going to install some Digitrax turnout signal masts and have not been able to find anything in searches so I wanted to know if anyone has done anything like this. I plan on using some Showcase Miniatures etchings to dress them up with ladder, stands, hoods, (no vader-too modern).  Any ideas or experience out there?

[Bill H]

Dave;
During the previous Shapeways tenure, there were several persons selling dress up kits for the N scale (and HO) Digitrax signal sets. Most had Darth Vader hoods, but I found one person who had a non Darth Vader product and bought a few from him, I will see if I can find any emails with that person. Perhaps some others on this board might have had an email exchange with him?

Kind regards,
Bill

[Rivet Miscounter]

I want to say someone had an etched kit as well--a looong time ago--but I don't recall the specifics.   Either way, the 3D printed versions should be good enough if they can be sourced.

[John]

I am going to install some Digitrax turnout signal masts and have not been able to find anything in searches so I wanted to know if anyone has done anything like this. I plan on using some Showcase Miniatures etchings to dress them up with ladder, stands, hoods, (no vader-too modern).  Any ideas or experience out there?

[spr1955]

 John, those look like some of the 3D files I have found. Did you print that/those yourself or did you have someone print them for you?

[Sokramiketes]

Here's where you're going to need to apply a bit of artistic license to the equation.

The Showcase parts are gorgeous, but they're mostly to scale.  Using them on the oversize mast and PCB signal head will probably just further emphasize the out of scale parts.

The 3D prints John shows are a better overall approach to my eye, let everything get slightly oversize so the proportions look better overall.  Ladder is thicker to compensate, hoods are sized to fit the PCB.  Etc. 

[Bill H]

John, those look like some of the 3D files I have found. Did you print that/those yourself or did you have someone print them for you?

Dave - that mast from John looks like the HO mast or the testing mast the Digitrax supplies. Are you using the old Digitrax signals (SHABC), or the newer N (SNABC) scale signals? FWIW, the pictures on Digitrax's site make them look the same, but they are not looks like the same pic got reused. The N scale versions do not have male contracts at the bottom like the HO versions.

Kind regards,
Bill

[spr1955]

Here's where you're going to need to apply a bit of artistic license to the equation.

The Showcase parts are gorgeous, but they're mostly to scale.  Using them on the oversize mast and PCB signal head will probably just further emphasize the out of scale parts.

The 3D prints John shows are a better overall approach to my eye, let everything get slightly oversize so the proportions look better overall.  Ladder is thicker to compensate, hoods are sized to fit the PCB.  Etc.

I agree it is a challenge to make everything fit and to scale which is why I reached out about this.  I do have some showcase miniatures etched sheets and other signal products trying them to see what works and looks nice to scale. The 3d prints look nice but having them in hand is the real deal.....  keep ya posted.

[John]

John, those look like some of the 3D files I have found. Did you print that/those yourself or did you have someone print them for you?

They are my designs. I printed them on a photon mono.  I recommend you use a flexible resin because the parts are pretty flimsy … I blunt the signal on the layout then glue the dress up on afterward .. please post a pix if you use them on the layout.  Enjoy

[robert3985]

I am going to install some Digitrax turnout signal masts and have not been able to find anything in searches so I wanted to know if anyone has done anything like this. I plan on using some Showcase Miniatures etchings to dress them up with ladder, stands, hoods, (no vader-too modern).  Any ideas or experience out there?

I scratch-build all of my Type-D signals using brass sheet, brass wire & stainless steel hypodermic tubing.  However, it appears from your statement that you don't want "Darth Vader" shields on your signal targets because you think they're "too modern"...you might want to reconsider this opinion since big hoods have been on Type-D signals since at least 1949 or 1950. 

If you've got some photos of the prototype signals you'd like, as well as what era and road your layout is...that's really essential, as most of the advice so far on this thread, is shooting in the dark because of incomplete info about what you want.

If you want Type-D signals (post-semaphore), in my research for my layout's Union Pacific era (1947 thru 1956) most of the semaphores were replaced by then (not ALL), but, in that ten-year time period, the shields (attached to the target) over the lights changed from "eyebrows" over each individual lamp, to large "Snow Shields"...which were actually larger than the modern "Darth Vader" shields. 

Also, the original targets themselves were larger than the "modern" targets we see nowadays.

How large?  Here's the prototype drawing...

Photo (1) - Prototype UP Common Standard drawing with measurements for an original signal target:


For a better looking Digitrax signal head, you might start off with adding correctly sized targets to the PC board structure.  These could be easily made of paper by cutting them out with sharp scissors and a sharp X-acto knife with a new #11 blade, stiffening them with runny CA before gluing them to the Digitrax structures.  OR, you could use Styrene, or Brass depending on your skill level.

Photo (2) - Prototype photo of "early" (1947) Type-D signal with original "eyebrow" shields over each individual lamp:


NOTE: Notice also that the relay/electrical cabinet for this signal is on the opposite side of the track, the wires for the signal running under the roadbed.  Also note that the signal mast is mounted to a cylindrical concrete base and that the ladder is very simple, with no platform anywhere.  Also, note the rectangular mileage shield, which were present on each and every signal mast, indicated to the crew their exact location.

Photo (3) - Prototype photo of "early" (1948) Type-D signals mounted on large, cast relay/electrical cabinets (I assume left over from the removed semaphores).  This was typical for this early era on the UP:


NOTE: The large relay/electrical cabinets are mounted to rectangular concrete bases. Note also the half-buried battery box next to the nearest signal.  The ladders are still simple.

Photo (4) - Prototype photo of "early" (1950) Type-D signal with LARGE "Snow Shield" over its lamps:


NOTE the more "modern" rectangular relay/electrical cabinet this signal is mounted to, but still with simple ladder and rectangular mileage shield.

Photo (5) - Prototype photo of "early" (1950) Type-D signal with LARGE "Snow Shield" over its lamps mounted to the early, large, cast relay/electrical cabinet:


The extra-large "Snow Shields" persisted, at least on the UP (I do very little research on other roads which I am not modeling), until they were replaced with the modern version, with smaller targets, with "Darth Vader" shields, complex platforms & ladders sometime between the turn of the Century and today.

Photo (6) - My photo of an original Type-D signal mast & head, with extra-large "Snow Shield", but with modern rectangular relay/electrical separate cabinet at Morgan Utah in the 90's:


Photo (7) - My photo of an original Type-D signal mast & head, with extra-large "Snow Shield" in a typical mainline configuration with the modern rectangular relay/electrical cabinet & double-masted utility pole:


NOTE: The ladders on these last two photos have had their tops modified into sort of a semi-platform...really just something to grab on to if needing to get to the front of the signal head.

Photo ( 8 ) - Scratch-built Type-D brass signal heads on a modified Traincat UP Cantilever Signal Bridge I built for my friend Nate Goodman years ago:


I don't agree that you need to make your detailing of the overly-large Digitrax signal equally oversized.  I'm of the attitude that finer details will improve the overall looks of your signals, whereas overly large details detract from realism, even if some components are way out of scale.

I also have Showcase Miniatures relay cabinets and other signal details, which work very well on my layout.  However, they don't offer just etched signal ladders, combining their ladders with more etched signal details.  However, I did a short Google search for "N Scale etched metal industrial ladders" and came up with a few promising etches.  Give it a try.

Showcase also has an etched fret of signal targets with both "Eyebrow" and "Snow Shield" style shields to bend up and solder to their brass targets.  I don't know if the spacing for the lights is the same for both Digitrax and the Showcase Miniatures etched targets, but it would be worth getting one and seeing if it would be easy to mount to the Digitrax signal head.  If they work, it'd save you from having to manufacture them.

Looking at the Digitrax signal head, it looks as if there is plenty of "meat" surrounding the circuitry, so sanding off the decorative pike on top and thinning up the width may be easily possible, which would improve the looks quite a bit.

Just in case you decide to detail the targets a bit more, here are four photos showing different angles of a prototype Type-D "old" (post 1949) signal head...

Photo (9) - Type-D side view:


Photo (10) - Type-D 3/4 front view:


Photo (11) - Type-D 3/4 rear view:


Photo (12) - Type-D rear view:


Post some photos when you get one the way you like it.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[John]

This was also a standard layout for the WM signals ..

[spr1955]

Dave - that mast from John looks like the HO mast or the testing mast the Digitrax supplies. Are you using the old Digitrax signals (SHABC), or the newer N (SNABC) scale signals? FWIW, the pictures on Digitrax's site make them look the same, but they are not looks like the same pic got reused. The N scale versions do not have male contracts at the bottom like the HO versions.

Kind regards,
Bill

I am using the SNABC masts.

Dave P.

[spr1955]

To give more info, I am located in Southwest Pennsylvania 1955.  Proto/freelance, there were lots of mixed signals at that time but it looks like I need to do more work researching my location and time to find out what I need to do to make them accurate for the time period i am modeling.

I will keep posting as I make progress.

Lots of good info so far, much appreciated.

Dave P.

[nkalanaga]

One correction: "Every" signal didn't have a mileage/number plate.  That indicated a "permissive" automatic block signal, where a train could stop, then proceed at restricted speed to the next signal, if there wasn't supposed to be an opposing train.

Without that plate, it's an "absolute" signal, such as one would find at sidings, junctions, or any other "controlled" point.  In those cases, if it says "stop", the train sat there until it changed, or until they got permission from the dispatcher to proceed.

[Bill H]

Dave and Group;
This the Digitrax NABC dual head mast cover I found up on the old Shapeways. Didn't work exactly as expected, but it was correct, non Darth Vader for my transitional signals. Perhaps this will give some others ideas?

Kind regards,
Bill