BLI Gulf, Mobile and Ohio Railroad (GM&O) E7s and Erie E8s

[thomasjmdavis]

On GM&O colors- take a look at the following link- scroll down to the comment by "D500", which appears to be knowledgeable.  In photos (as with the ones linked by Peter), there is often a lot of variation. 

https://ogrforum.com/topic/gmandamp-o-colors

This would also make sense given that the north end of the system (the old Alton paint shop) would have perhaps used "Alton red" (maroon) whereas the southern end of the system might have been more likely to opt for "Mobile and Ohio red".

See the Alton diesels in this video:
https://www.facebook.com/ClassicStreamliners/videos/the-alton-railroad/1732866517627850/  (you may need to X out the facebook log in link, but the video will still play, at least, it did for me.

[Sokramiketes]

Yes on different color values, but not on different colors.

I think the best way to illustrate this is with some rough color samples.  Top left would be "Alton" darker maroon.  Top right would be South End two tone red.  That's the difference in a lighter shade of the same maroon color.  I agree with the post on the o gauge forum, and agree that locomotives and color photos show a range between the top two color samples. 

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The bottom is what we have on the BLI F3's.  It's brown, not a value of maroon.  It doesn't fit between the North/South values as an interpretation.  It's a step away.

[thomasjmdavis]

Thanks Mike, that comparison of the 3 color swatches does make your point. 

Your third sample looks almost Illinois Central.

[chessie system fan]

Mike, do you have "GM&O in Color V1"?  Turn to page 83. 

Going from that very good E7 picture from 1950, I'm going to say that the BLI color is "close" for the original as-built scheme. Its definitely more brown than maroon. I'd call it a "rich brown" shade. Compare the brown tone to the brighter colors of the passenger cars directly behind the engines.

So if you model Chicago in 1950 and need E7s, that's what you need.  For Alco engines or anything after 1950, the maroon shades you discuss are correct. I'm not sure when the exact change happened for EMD units, but the E8s are the "typical" maroon.

Since the color photos we have are mostly from the mid 1950s and later, I think this is a case of our mind's eye playing a trick on us.

[Sokramiketes]

Mike, do you have "GM&O in Color V1"?  Turn to page 83. 

Going from that very good E7 picture from 1950, I'm going to say that the BLI color is "close" for the original as-built scheme. Its definitely more brown than maroon. I'd call it a "rich brown" shade. Compare the brown tone to the brighter colors of the passenger cars directly behind the engines.

So if you model Chicago in 1950 and need E7s, that's what you need.  For Alco engines or anything after 1950, the maroon shades you discuss are correct. I'm not sure when the exact change happened for EMD units, but the E8s are the "typical" maroon.

Since the color photos we have are mostly from the mid 1950s and later, I think this is a case of our mind's eye playing a trick on us.

I don’t, can you post it?

[chessie system fan]

Here's a quick cell phone pic.  (And it's in St. Louis, not Chicago. Oops.)

But look how brown they are compared to the passenger cars.

[thomasjmdavis]

The key in the photo is in the caption, where the author says "The E7s still carry the small number boards and the factory dark maroon paint job.  The GM&O herald replaces the Alton/B&O "mustache"..."
Which is to say, that dark color is the original Alton color.

[chessie system fan]

Correct.  Alton colors but not the Alton paint scheme.  That was a little different.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Alton_Railroad_EMD_E-7_1945.jpg

What people were hoping for, I think, is this scheme (shown here in 1955--but by then they had large number boards!).

https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Bruce-Meyer-35mm-Color-Slides/GMO/i-npfF9RC/A

[Sokramiketes]

So which version of maroon is this supposed to be?   

[chessie system fan]

I finally had a moment to look up the F3 info needed in the Alton/GM&O painting article in the March/April Mainline Modeler. 

The E7s coming out are a "phase I" scheme -- i.e. no change from the Alton scheme except for the removal of that triangular area on the nose. Yellow lettering.

The F3 shown, 883A, is a 'phase II" scheme from 1947 -- same Alton colors but enlarged light red area on the sides to fit the EMD side panels, 9" "Gulf Mobile & Ohio" and "The Alton Route" slogan.  The units lasted in this scheme until about 1960 at the latest but without "The Alton Route" slogan.  Black steps and grabs. Chrome yellow lettering.

"Phase III" is from 1949 onwards and has no "The Alton Route" slogan, 20" side numbers and 7" "Gulf Mobile & Ohio" lettering. Aluminum steps and grabs. Imitation gold or silver lettering.

This is the scheme with the lighter maroon color around the pilot, lower side panels and rear. "Dark Red Maroon" cab and top side panels.  It's hard to tell those two colors apart, but they're both there!

So that F3 appears to be accurate. If I had to quibble, the color they used looks like "milk chocolate maroon." Going from the E7 photo, I might have gone one shade darker.  But maybe it appears lighter because the photo was taken in a bright light box.

[Sokramiketes]

If I had to quibble, the color they used looks like "milk chocolate maroon."

I think we're on the same page now.  It looks just as chocolaty in person, hence the consternation. 

[Peter Amling]

Here's a quick cell phone pic.  (And it's in St. Louis, not Chicago. Oops.)

But look how brown they are compared to the passenger cars.

I'll jump in here and say this is the look they are supposed to have. This initial run of E7s is in the "as delivered" (from Alton) scheme, as shown in the photo above. The later two-tone red and large number boards could be in a future production run.

[thomasjmdavis]

My Erie  'Stealth'  units arrived yesterday.  I'm really pleased so far.  Paint is excellent. I know that what constitutes the 'right' greens is a matter of opinion and discussion, but in my opinion, these are right on, color-wise.  Tested them last night, and they had very good slow speed right out of the box (I don't have enough test track to judge high speed).

A big upgrade from my Life-Like and Walthers units.

Compliments to Pioneer and BLI for turning out some very nice locomotives.

[CBQ Fan]

I liked my GM&O unit so much I ordered the second unit!