Author Topic: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....  (Read 5137 times)

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Sumner

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UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« on: July 28, 2024, 07:45:29 PM »
+5
I've been putting layout build pictures in the 3D printer section and weekend update section but as far as I know never actually in the 'Layout' section on here.  Although well into the build thought I'd start putting the build here.. so ........ to begin....

Sawmill Design/Build – Part 9...

After spending a couple months on the HandCab WiFi Throttle and SpeedTrap speedometer I'm finally back to doing something for the layout. Continuing with the sawmill complex. Not much more that I'll do on it before getting back to scenery and laying track in the hopes of someday being able to run a train all the way around the layout on either the upper level or the lower level. So where I'm at with the sawmill complex....



The chain to the left past the debarker (center) is new. I have most of the building done to cover the debarker and most of it will be open on the side you will be viewing the sawmill complex from. The log lift and chain on the right was finally finished with a sprocket/wheel added to the left side so that the chain could at least look like it is continuous.



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Carriage above is a work in progress as I write this and ...



…. not sure some of the small parts like the hydraulic rams will print or not.



The roof will lift off to see the interior but the mill isn't right at the edge of the layout and is up on the upper level so probably spending a lot of time on this for detail that won't ever be seen. At least I'll know it is there. I'll work on the rest of the interior at a later date.

To be continued............

A link to this whole build ( HERE ).

Sumner
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

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Scottl

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2024, 08:00:03 PM »
0
Fantastic.  You are prolific!

Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2024, 02:23:03 PM »
+2
Sawmill Design/Build – Part 10 ...

My plan was to get the log lift at the mill pond, the chain to the debarker and the chain to and into the mill finished and then put the project aside. Well I guess I have to admit that I'm somewhat addicted to it and couldn't quite stop there.

I decide to move forward and try and finish most (the difficult part) of the interior for the north end of the mill building. I wanted to get the equipment designed and printed that is needed to get the log from the mill pond to the bandsaw.

What follows on this page is the path I took.....

 

Above we can see the north wall although due to the height of the bandsaw I'm raising the top (above the end opening) an additional 7-8 scale feet and adding a footer to the bottom of the wall. Of course that means I also had to go back and do the same for all the other walls of the mill. That is done but not shown above.



The equipment shown above is mostly my interpretation of looking at the equipment that Hull-Oakes has now or had back into I believe the 60's or before. I'm not quite anal enough to want to duplicate it exactly and that would be hard to do in N scale and the space restraints of the scene on the layout. As it is it will occupy about 3' x 6.5' at the end of the layout on the upper level. So compromises were taken in the design of what you see above. Big shout out to Autodesk for putting a free non-commercial version of Fusion for us that don't have $600 a year to spend on the real thing.

 I probably wouldn't of been able to of designed these parts a year or so ago but did design them with most of the tools I used then. I use less that 20 tools in Fusion to do my design work and I'll bet that is less than 5% of what Fusion is capable of. I mentioned this for anyone looking for a CAD program. Personally I don't think it can be beat for what is out there free. Take a look and try it out. There are good videos out there on getting started like the one ( HERE ). That one got me started and if you can master it you will be off to designing yourself.



The track off to the left has four round-tables on it (one shown) and the track is used to transport air dried lumber that is brought from the yard to a dock on the side of the mill where it is put on carts that are pushed on the track to a planner. More on all of that at a later date.

The three square platforms between two of the arrows are where there will be three long sections of rollers. Cut lumber from the bandsaw will move over to those sets of roller and then along the rollers to saws that will cut the lumber from the bandsaw into individual width boards and also to length. From there the lumber will move to the green chain and outside to be stacked and air dried.



I mentioned above that Fusion is fast. Well it is fast depending on your computer. I spent some money about 2 years ago now on a faster gaming type computer with a dedicate graphics card to speed things up. 90% of the time it updates changes in a second or so. Large brick walls with all the brick faces can get somewhat slower but sill not bad compared to the previous computer I had.

The chains and there adjacent structure to move the logs with the turning sprocket on the end are a whole different story for some reason. Sometimes I'd wait up to 10 minutes for the computer to update a change I had just made to the design. Sometimes it would crash the program. I am so glad to be done with them.



I had to make two prints of most of what you see here. The first would come out OK but I'd see things that I wanted to add so would make changes (painfully slow ones on the chain from the mill pond and the log deck) and then print the second print shown above for both of those items and for the carriage. I was happy with the bandsaw the first time around.



I'll design and print some additional logs of different diameters and lengths to use on the chains and in the mill pond. Can't see it here but I have some designed with bark on and bark off (after the debarker).



The carriage that moves back and forth with the log on it and that also moves the log towards the bandsaw blade for each cut is actually more complicated than what I designed. It has cable and hydraulic lines all over it. Check out the video ( HERE ).

For years someone rode on the carriage and operated it. I have the seat for the operator at the far end of the carriage above and will have an operator on the carriage. Now at Hull-Oakes the carriage has been replaced and no operator needed.



I decided to try printing the saw blade and it came out, somewhat surprising to me as it is only .007” (.18mm) thick. That is usually my lower limit for detail I'll put on a print. It is one N scale inch and is really about as small as you can see at most viewing distances. The blade is 1 ft in with (n scale) and actually not as wide as the blade is at Hull-Oakes as seen ( HERE ).

All of this was printed on a $200 AnyCubic Photon M3 using Siraya Tech 'Build' Sonic Grey resin. Love that resin and is all I use. Great detail, strong, not so brittle (the blade above will flex some) and it is drillable and tappable. Perfect for all my needs. I use the print settings on Siraya Tech's site for my printer and I've never had to mess with the settings.



Above one can see the carriage operator's seat at this end of the carriage. He would also at times stand and hold the new piece of lumber being cut back against the log until the saw was at the end of the cut.



As I mentioned further above the compute times when designing the log deck and chain from the mill pond shown about got really long and frustrating waiting for. In comparison any design change I made for the bandsaw, carriage or the whole floor for this end of the mill never took more than a couple seconds for the computer and software to make.

I hope I can restrain myself from trying to design the remaining interior for the south end of the mill to a later date. I'll finish the structure that will be above the debarker but really need to get back to finishing scenery and laying track.

To be continued............

A link to this whole build ( HERE ).

Sumner
« Last Edit: August 05, 2024, 02:24:39 PM by Sumner »
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

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Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2024, 05:01:35 PM »
+2
Sawmill Design/Build – Part 11...

About the last building I need besides an office and boiler house was one to cover the debarker where …...



...... the logs coming from the mill pond are debarked before entering the mill.



Again I used the building at Hull-Oakes for inspiration. Not trying to model it exact. I also removed the wall on the mill pond side so that the debarker would be more visible. Theirs is pretty open but not as open as this one. In my world most of the weather comes from the sheltered side. The open side will be visible from the side of the layout and you won't see much of the other side from that viewing point.



There is also an extension to the building on the back side for a room that also extends towards the debarker (see previous image). Hull-Oakes also has an interior room that I'm guessing houses parts for the debarker and a place to work if needed.



As I'm writing this there is a 9 hour print going on out in the shop. First time I've tried printing a building whole with the roof on. Most of my buildings have removable roofs to see the interior. Since this one is open on the side I thought I'd try printing the roof in place. Where I've printed removable roofs I've had problems with them warping a day or so later after printing. I can usually get the warp out with a hot air gun and then holding it in place for a day or so with weights. Only time will tell ( a few hours from now) how this works.

More coming after the print finishes.

To be continued............

A link to this whole build .

Sumner
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

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Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2024, 08:24:02 PM »
+2
Sawmill Design/Build – Part 11....

... continiued...



The print came out well except for one item which I'll talk about in the last image below.



Not sure if I'll move on further with painting and moving it to the layout now or not. Will have to give that some thought. I do have the roadbed for the track laid down so could go ahead and lay track and work on the overall scene but will probably move back to the scenery I was doing so I can get a loop of track around the layout.



To the left there will be a low earth dam at the end of the mill point there and need to make a boat to move the logs around.



I'm happy with the end result for the debarker building and the debarker itself. I have a lot of hours in this and a lot of it was the long compute times of waiting the design changes to take place. It all revolved in all of the faces in the chains. Glad those are done.



.



The one minor flaw/problem revolved around positioning the print the way I did and the resulting supports. Take a moment if interested and move back up the page to the image with the print and supports. Since I was printing the whole building as a single print and it had to be severely rotated to fit on the build plate I ended up with the supports being generated on the back side.

If you look at the ends or the board and batten on the interior walls or the building next to it you can see the printer did a good job printing them. The supports on the back wall, lots of them, ended up wiping out a lot of the board & batten detail. I'm going to let it go as that side can't be seen from any normal viewing angle once the building is put into place.

I'm pleased though that I can print very close to scale corrugated roofing (or siding) now with the rest printer. Not possible with the filament printer unless the corrugations were made about twice scale size. More coming after the print finishes.

To be continued............

A link to this whole build ( HERE ).

Sumner
« Last Edit: August 10, 2024, 08:28:56 PM by Sumner »
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

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Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2024, 11:43:23 AM »
+2


I was asked about measurements for the mill.  Above are the approximate measurements of the sawmill complex minus loading docks and I'll probably also design a boiler house and maybe an office. Also not shown is the mill pond. Stacked lumber will also take up a lot of room along with a loading building/dock along the tracks.



Mill pond will be just to the right of the single track that cuts across the scene. Mill will be from where the small tub with the sponge down towards the track on the far end.



It will basically take up the end of the upper level shown above in the area just to the left of the tracks for the mill pond and mill.

More info on the roadbed work above ( HERE ).

To be continued............

A link to this whole build ( HERE ).

Sumner
« Last Edit: August 12, 2024, 11:46:06 AM by Sumner »
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

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Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2024, 01:58:32 PM »
+2
Sawmill Design/Build – Part 12...

If you have a sawmill and a mill pond you probably need a boom boat to sort and move the logs to the log lift that will start them on their journey into the mill. If the boat is broke down or the mill doesn't have one then men have to get on the logs with long poles and push them where they need to go (the boat is faster and easier).



Above is one of the boats I've seen in action in videos of Hull-Oakes' boom boat in action. Lots of really good videos of Hull-Oakes' boom boat in action and also the mill in operation ( HERE ) down the menu a fair ways (9 years ago as I write this).

Of note is the fact that these boats look like they are about to sink since they sit so low in the water. They are designed like that and it is amazing how maneuverable they are (check out the videos above).

I didn't need to design the boat as deep as I have but did so for a couple reasons. I'll probably add another print option with some of the detail that is shown below the bottom of the boat in the bottom left corner of the image above. I'd put that boat up on stands in the scene and it is being worked on. I'll probably have another tied to the dock at the debarker building and maybe a third in action pushing a log and heeled over like what is shown above down at the lower right. For the boats in the water I'll dig the foam out and set them down into the water either straight up or heeled over.



After about 5 hours of design work with Fusion I had the above finished. The cab was fairly usable but the rest of the boat wasn't right the more I looked at images of the boat shown in the images further above. With no measurements to work of it was a lot of looking a the photos and guessing what they probably are.



Two more days got me to where I'm 90% happy with the boat above and ….



….. the same boat but with a cab for more weather protection. I moved the files into Chitubox and let it add the supports. Normally I'd tilt the object and looked at that but more or less flat worked out really well with the stock supports Chitubox add.

There is some really small detail on the boat that I didn't know how well it would print and/or if some of it would break off removing the supports so printed three of each version.

 

They all printed great and I'm continually impressed with how versatile the Siraya Tech 'Build' Sonic Grey resin is both in detail, strength and not real brittle.



I keep reading about all the new printers and what great detail they can print but what this $200 printer and resin can do I'd only probably buy one if I wanted a larger build area. This one with a little over 6 inch build plate has done about all I need. Still use the Ender 3 Pro filament printer for a lot of larger prints.



This boat isn't very big as shown by the measurements above.

 

The steering wheel is about a scale 16 inches in diameter. The two parts of the post cleat at the stern that project out from it are a scale 3 inches in diameter (.020”/.5 mm) and printed and didn't break off. There is some detail on surfaces shown that is down to 1 N scale inch (.006”/.15 mm) that prints but I don't think would print up in free air like the parts of the post cleat.

 

.



I have about 4 small additions/changes I want to make and then I'll post the print files up on my thingiverse.com account and the links to there here when I do.

Sawmill complex build to be continued............

A link to this whole build ( HERE ).

Sumner
« Last Edit: August 16, 2024, 02:19:12 PM by Sumner »
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR Main/Link Page Menu.html

wazzou

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2024, 02:07:24 PM »
0
I'd probably shorten the height or draft area of the boat by about 3 ribs so it can sit at the proper height above the water line.

Great job!
Bryan

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Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2024, 02:26:05 PM »
0
Thanks.  You are right that when the boat is in the water it pretty much looks like it is sinking.

The reason for the boats draft...

I didn't need to design the boat as deep as I have but did so for a couple reasons. I'll probably add another print option with some of the detail that is shown below the bottom of the boat in the bottom left corner of the image above. I'd put that boat up on stands in the scene and it is being worked on. I'll probably have another tied to the dock at the debarker building and maybe a third in action pushing a log and heeled over like what is shown above down at the lower right. For the boats in the water I'll dig the foam out and set them down into the water either straight up or heeled over.

Sumner
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR Main/Link Page Menu.html

NorthWestGN

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2024, 11:57:57 AM »
0
The boom boats came out great, without the dime for reference it's very hard to appreciate how fine the details are on these. The sawmill overall is very impressive, I can't imagine the amount of hours involved the just the research and file design, not to mention the hours of printing and cleanup. Looking forward to the final scene...

Brent

basementcalling

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2024, 02:08:09 PM »
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That's one hell of sawmill for sure.  What else is on your canyon sub? UP always interests me.
Peter Pfotenhauer

Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2024, 09:07:25 AM »
0
That's one hell of sawmill for sure.  What else is on your canyon sub? UP always interests me.

Thanks,  the layout is in progress and need to get back to laying track and scenery.  The build is all here...

https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/UP%20Canyon%20Division/UP%20Canyon%20Division-Index.html

You can find all my model RR stuff here...

https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR%20Main/Railroad-Index.html

Sumner
« Last Edit: August 22, 2024, 09:09:11 AM by Sumner »
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR Main/Link Page Menu.html

Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2024, 11:13:47 AM »
+3

I've got the print files for the mill pond log lift & chain; the debarker & building and chain to the mill all up on my thingiverse.com account ( HERE ).

More images and info on The Railwire ( HERE ).

Sumner
« Last Edit: August 27, 2024, 12:34:28 PM by Sumner »
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR Main/Link Page Menu.html

Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2024, 11:32:54 AM »
+3
Sawmill Design/Build – Part 13 ....

For the print files go to my thingiverse.com account ( HERE ).

===============================================

After printing the open boom boat and the one with a cab I decided to do a couple small changes and call it done.

 

One can print the boat with or without a cab.



I extended the two side vertical stakes just past the bow on both sides down to the bottom of the boat. When the boat is pushing logs these stakes grab the log to some degree and make it easier to push. I also raised the rear air intake on top of the engine compartment a little and added the non-slip grate looking section where the operator stands.



On the 'cab' version I narrowed up the roof over the cab a bit.  When designing one has to often exaggerate some dimensions in order for them to print and show up. The air intake, rear post cleat and exhaust are examples of that and are slightly oversize if you were to compared them to the real thing.

 

I added a non-skid surface to the floor by the steering wheel.



If you are viewing this on a computer screen the boat is way smaller than the image you are probably looking at.



The ribs in the non-skid surface are N scale 1 inch in thickness. Anything smaller won't print with the printer and probably couldn't be seen if they could be printed.



I've been very happy with this printer and it is a couple years older at this point. I like the over 6 inch long build plate that it has. Large for a printer in this price range. Not sure if it is available any longer.



I'm happy with the little inch long boat and feel it represents what the Hull-Oakes mill and other mills have.

For the print files go to my thingiverse.com account ( HERE ).

A link to this whole build ( HERE ).

Sumner

Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR Main/Link Page Menu.html

Sumner

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Re: UP's N Scale Canyon Division Layout Build....
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2024, 08:29:10 PM »
+2
Sawmill Design/Build – Part 14 …... Logging Car Pt. 1.......

The mill is set in the 60's and moving towards trucks hauling timber to the mill but will still receive some by rail so needs a number of cars to haul that timber. This will be the first car I've designed so bare with me on this project. Again I'm looking at various cars that were/are used to haul logs to a sawmill. I've been amazed at how many variations there are. Mine will be compromises of some I've seen to work Micro-Trains couplers and trucks.

 

I started with the idea of using Micro-Trains popular 1015 couplers and got a lot of feedback on the use of those and other Micro-Trains N scale couplers along with their Z scale couplers. I settled on there coupler-less Bettendorf trucks as they should work for my time period (as far as I know).



I had some 1015 couplers but no trucks so started on trying to get the ride height right and ...



…. the basic shape/size of the main part of the body. I had a sample set of Micro-trains trucks with truck mounted couplers in different lengths. I started with the one with the longest couple length and turned it around under the body so that I could work on the body mounted 1015 coupler.

 
After feeling I was headed in the right direction I designed the first version of the car so that I could print it out and get a feel for the overall looks of the car.



I pushed some of the detail like the rivets and bolts on some of the car's plates to about as small as …..



..... I've had luck printing and seeing on some bridges I've designed.



Also after posting some pictures of progress I received some good suggestions for couplers other than the 1015. Since I had them I forged ahead using them in the design but haven't made a final decision on the couplers.



Micro-Train's 'Z' couplers were also suggested and I decided against them at first thinking they might be more expensive (without checking). When I found out they were comparable in price I order some of them to look at and I'm waiting on those as I write this (-09-06-24). If they let me narrow the body up in width and height I'll probably change the design slightly so that they can be used.



On the first print of just the end of the car the pocket for the coupler had no bottom, only sides, back and top. I tried to then hold the coupler in with a 00-90 screw through the coupler and into the body as shown above. I wasn't happy with that as the screw that came with the couple was too long and I had drilled the hole out to tap for the screw too large and had to CA the screw to the body to work with the coupler height. The screw also didn't have a lot of thread depth (even if I'd drilled the hole the right size).



I did a redesign and added a bottom to the pocket so that the screw now doesn't have to hold the coupler up but just holds it from sliding out and is in double-shear. I reduced the size of the pocket so that it is hardly visible with the car on the track.



I printed three of the cars (little over an hour print) with the $200 AnyCubic Photon M to get a feel for how they would look.



I put couplers in one of the cars to check the pockets and how the screw would work. The trucks still hadn't arrived so what you see above is where I'm at now. Overall I'm happy but need to tweak some things. At this point ordered some Micro-Trains Z couplers to try and waiting on that order.



Since the coupler pocket seems to work well I think I can move the Z couplers if they work or the 1015's up about .010” to .015” higher in the body and also narrow the body a bit more. I also remembered I had a $13 assortment of 00-90 screws so was able to use those instead of the screws that come with the couplers. I have the hole in the bottom of the pocket sized so that the screw goes through it and only threads into the body above the coupler. Also found out that I don't need to tap that hole, which is about impossible as it is so short, as the screw does a good job tapping the hole itself. It also doesn't have to hold the coupler up with the pocket also on the bottom of the coupler (see above).



As far as the detail I designed, it prints but boy is it hard to see with the naked eye unless the car is very close to that eye. I keep seeing where people want more print resolution with resin printers. I find this $200 printer to give me all I'd care to have since the cars will be on the layout and not in my hand much right in from of my face.



As long as I could find a printer that prints this good then the build volume becomes the desired feature for me. This printer is doing the job for most projects for me with the 163.9 x 102.4 x 180 mm (6.45” L x 4” W x 7” H) build volume. At some point I might consider a resin printer with a larger build volume but don't need it to have anymore print resolution. I still use the Ender3 Pro for projects and it has a much larger build volume.

If you are new to printing I try and print most of my filament (Ender 3) prints flat on the table so the size that can be printed is determined more by the length of the X & Y planes on the printer. I hardly ever print a resin print on the build plate. They are usually suspended on supports and print better that way.

 Doing that with the current Photon M3 printer I can orient the print to take advantage of the 7” height and the 6.45” length and print items that are almost as large as I print with the filament printer. Both printers have their pro's and con's. Don't think you can't print N scale items with a filament printer as I have tons of N scale items ( HERE ) & ( HERE ) I've printer for the railroad with the filament printer, more than I've printed with the resin printer and those print files are up for anyone to use (non-commercial).

The detail shown above is down to around .007”/ .178 mm or about 1 inch in N scale. I can't print down to .014”/.356 mm with the Ender 3 Pro filament printer, about 2 scale inches. In most cases at normal viewing distances one can not see much under 2 scale inches.

A link to this whole build ( HERE ).

Sumner
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR Main/Link Page Menu.html