Gear tower trouble in my AC6?

[Chris333]

The front gear box is completely different. It is narrower to fit between the frame rails. The rear one is higher up and wider.

[ATSF_Ron]

Chris, the rear tower is actually on the left side of the pic, but yes, they are different sizes for sure.

[Chris333]

oops yeah cab forward 

[ATSF_Ron]

Solder repairs done.  I elected to only solder the rear bushing tab and NOT the front tank structure that holds the shell to the frame.  Waaaay too many things for me to try and reverse engineer in order to solder accurately.  It's going to get glued on with something, probably epoxy.  The piece has to be aligned PERFECTLY or the mounting screw simply will not go into the hole.  So I screwed the tank back onto the frame first (instead of last when it was still soldered on) and attempted to put this puppy together.  MAN, I don't EVER want to pull the front driver set out again!  EVER!  What a royal PITA to accomplish, and it still isn't done.  All the wiring for the motor and lighting has to fit between the top of the motor and the shell.  Clearance is so tight there are pre formed bends that need to go around specific piping and posts, otherwise that shell isn't going all the way on.  And right now it's obviously got a problem with the way I've put the wiring back in.  It's maybe an eighth of an inch too high in relation to the rear driver set.  I'm really not looking forward to pulling the front set out again and trying to manipulate those wires.  Part of the problem is also that damn tank under the cab floor.  Since it's not glued or soldered yet, the front of the loco wants to lift a bit.  The wiring issue has to be fixed first, so that will help set things right.  But I think I'm going to have to strap down the front of the loco when I glue that tank back to its mounting place.  I'll most likely use a strong rubber band as I don't want to mar the factory paint.

Notes on the pics:

1. Rear tower solder repair.
2. Front tower as a comparison photo.
3. Mounting area under the cab where the tank goes.
4. Tank with broken solder joint.  This pic was before I cleaned it up with a wire brush in a Dremel.

This is taking a LOT more time than I originally thought, and I'm going intentionally slow.  Repairing N scale brass locos is not for wimps!  I'm done for the night.  Time for a cold one...

[ATSF_Ron]

I feel like I'm digging a bigger hole for myself with each passing hour on this project!  I can't seem to get the motor and front driver set (all one connected unit) back down into the shell properly.  In photo 1 you can clearly see the large gap between the frame and the shell.  The tank that had the bad solder joint is now properly screwed into place, unsoldered.  It should be attached right next to the smaller tank which is sitting up against the cab floor.  In photo 2, the tweezers are pointing out a clip that the front gear tower must slip into.  In pic 3 you can see the thin metal piece at the top of the gear tower that must slip into said clip.  On top of all this, the headlight and motor wiring must be simultaneously directed up and over the motor so it fits nicely in the shell - while keeping the headlight in its tube!  It wants to go in front of the motor where the soldering tabs are.  I need more hands, LOL!

Spookshow Mark, if you're around, please comment if you have any tips or pointers for me to get this flippin thing back together!  In your cab forward pic on your web site, your forward gear tower looks different than mine.  I don't have the thin piece with the (I assume) screw hole off to the side that sits on top.  Does that piece screw to the boiler shell weight?  I have no such thing on mine.  Different run, perhaps.

I've hit a wall and am not sure how to go forward at this point.  This front driver set did NOT require a lot of force to remove.  I've pressed as hard as I dare on this reassembly.  I don't want to risk bending anything or popping off any piping or any other possible loose solder joints.  This is the farthest I've ever gone into any brass steamer.  I feel like I'm in uncharted territory.  For me at least, lol!  And no, I'm not interested in attempting to resolder that tank to the cab floor instead of using epoxy for 2 reasons.  1) Clearances under there are extremely tight.  I could mess up the paint or damage other parts nearby if I solder.  And more critically, 2) We all know about the extremely tight tolerances in this scale.  I don't see how it's possible to solder that piece back into the EXACT location where it will allow the screw to go back into its hole properly.  That's a critical mounting screw that keeps the front of the loco shell attached to the front driver set/frame assembly.  Even if I'm off by only 0.5mm or don't have a perfect 90 degree angle to the cab floor, I don't think it will function as intended.

I'm open to any ideas anyone may have, because I'm out of 'em!  Thanks everyone!  It's great to have all the exchange of helpful ideas here.

[Mike Madonna]

Ron,

Your best bet right now is to "step away" from it for a bit. I find that if I come back to it the next day (or night), I can reevaluate. With that tank off, the shell "should" drop onto the frame almost as easy as it came off. When I took apart my AC-5, I was not sure how the rear part of the shell was attached to the chassis. Gentle movement in several directions proved to work as the shell slid off the chassis. It is a rather simple but effective way to secure that part of the shell. IF that "tab" as been tweaked (meaning NOT in it's original position/angle), that shell will not go on correctly. Unfortunately, you discovered how important that tank is to the assembly of this loco. By your photos, I'm not quite sure how that tank was secured. One would presume it was soldered at the factory. I'll take another look at mine. Although, the paint may not allow me to really "see" anything...

[ATSF_Ron]

Thanks Mike. That’s essentially what I’ve done. I find I can get frustrated easily with these things, so walking away for a bit will usually allow me to look at things differently when I come back to it. Thanks for your info. I’ll get back to it Monday or Tuesday. It shouldn’t be this hard, which means it really isn’t. Giving it space and some time is the smart move.

[JMaurer1]

I see only one solution here that will end your difficulties and frustrations...box the engine up and send it to me. The sooner the better. Probably a good idea to include that 2-8-0 with the whaleback tender as well...just in case that has any problems as well. With this one act, your issues are instantly solved. I'm willing to take on this burden from you (I'm just a giver). Now I'm thinking I will head upstairs and dig out my AC-4 and try running it...maybe even try installing a decoder as well. I think I have one or two other brass SP locos (but none with a whaleback tender and thats one loco I've always wanted). This way I'll be better prepared when they get here. I'll be watching the mail...

[ATSF_Ron]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[ATSF_Ron]

After taking a bit of a breather and giving my hands a chance to steady, I attacked this thing again.  I was able to get everything back down to the proper positions, except for the darn solder joint.  In the end I chose Zap gel.  I looked at another forum when I Googled whether or not Zap can hold brass.  Several modelers commented they used the Zap gel with success, which I had on hand.  Even with a tiny toothpick and a VERY tiny flat screwdriver, I was barely able to access what needed to be glued up.  I put one drop in the center, near the mounting point (bad solder joint) and one near each end of the tank.  That ought to do it.

Photo 2 clearly shows the gap under the firebox/cab area (the red box shows through) now there because of the broken solder joint to the tank.
Photos 3 and 4 show the clamp I'm using to hold her steady for the next 24 hours.  If this won't hold then it's going to be epoxy shopping time.

Thankfully, after the disassembly debacle, the loco still runs well.  The only sacrifice, and it really isn't much of one, is the elimination of the pathetically weak headlight.  The wiring just wouldn't stay put or go where it needed to in order for me to get the motor back up into the shell deep enough.  Once that was gone it became a much easier task.  And really, you couldn't even see the damn thing unless you were at 3/4 throttle anyway.  That's something I'll never be doing with this loco.  I'm sure at some point I'll go back and install a nice, bright LED.

[peteski]

Yes, CA adhesive can be used to bond metals, but the joint won't be as strong as if a good epoxy adhesive (like J-B weld) was used.  In both cases the joint should be made to bare metal (as you did) and needs to be totally grease and oil free. If there are any traces of oily substances, the joint will be very weakl (as oil acts as a barrier for adhesives). Acetone  is excellent degreaser.  If the parts are not structural and  will not be handled often, CA should do the trick.

[Mike Madonna]

Ron,

Looking at the photo 2, that is a serious gap. It's getting late here. Tomorrow, I will take a look at my AC-5 and check to see how the shell orientation is to the chassis without using that screw (to secure). As an aside, when working on cars with my Dad (many years ago) I still recall what he told me, "Don't 'force' something, you might wind up breaking it". I put brass steam locos under this "philosophy" lol....

[ATSF_Ron]

Thanks for that, Peteski. I cleaned it up with a Dremel wire brush and 91% isopropyl alcohol. Hopefully it holds 🙏🏼

[ATSF_Ron]

Mike, so true! “If it doesn’t fit, don’t force it” applies here! 😂😂😂

[spookshow]

Spookshow Mark, if you're around, please comment if you have any tips or pointers for me to get this flippin thing back together!  In your cab forward pic on your web site, your forward gear tower looks different than mine.  I don't have the thin piece with the (I assume) screw hole off to the side that sits on top.  Does that piece screw to the boiler shell weight?  I have no such thing on mine.  Different run, perhaps.

Sorry Ron, it's been close to 20 years since I had one of those things and at this point I've forgotten pretty much everything I knew about it 

Good luck!
-Mark