T-Trak What would keep you from building a TTRAK module?

[arbomambo]

For me it's the lack of prototype operation. It's just a square in the end and your so limited to what you can do unlike free moN or even a home layout.

???
What makes you assume that the T-TRAK format doesn’t support ‘prototype operations’ any less than Free-moN?
We’ve built MANY modules, in our Southeast Region, that allow and support operations; in fact, we routinely gather for operations-only weekend setups.
Are you saying that operations are only possible on a single-track format?
Are there no prototype operations on prototype mainline railroads that are double-tracked?
I’m trying to understand why one would make an assumption like that, when the format clearly allows prototype operations… are you operating under some type of assumption that only certain types of track placement, or track plans are allowed on a T-TRAK module that wouldn’t support prototype operations any less than Free-moN or a home layout?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

For me it's the lack of prototype operation. It's just a square in the end and your so limited to what you can do unlike free moN or even a home layout.

My dude. This was ALL T-TRAK modules: https://conrail1285.com/jfrtm-on-the-philadelphia-belt-line-with-ypfj-41/

T-TRAK is, potentially, the BEST option for easy operations.

[MK]

For me it's the lack of prototype operation. It's just a square in the end and your so limited to what you can do unlike free moN or even a home layout.

Don't knock it until you try it!   

[davefoxx]

It's just a square in the end and your so limited to what you can do unlike free moN or even a home layout.

Whoa, whoa, whoa!  Sometimes, it’s a rectangle! 😜

DFF

[basementcalling]

Never seen a club try to operate prototypically on their TTRAK modules at a show, though that might not be the best place to do so given the publics desire to usual see trains go round and round in large numbers.

For me, the layout design would have to involve industries and spurs off both tracks, as all too often they only branch of the inner track.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Never seen a club try to operate prototypically on their TTRAK modules at a show, though that might not be the best place to do so given the publics desire to usual see trains go round and round in large numbers.

For me, the layout design would have to involve industries and spurs off both tracks, as all too often they only branch of the inner track.

It'd be virtually impossible at a show. At least a big one.

But no other groups do that either.

It's not the module format, it's the event format.

[davefoxx]

It's not the module format, it's the event format.

Bingo!



DFF

[Ed Kapuscinski]

If you want to see some T-TRAK ops... I got your T-TRAK ops right here.

No, really, I'll be happy to demonstrate.

[basementcalling]

It'd be virtually impossible at a show. At least a big one.

But no other groups do that either.

It's not the module format, it's the event format.

Yea, public shows are not the right place for it, but that's far and away the most common place to see a TTRAK layout. They are certainly better formatted for ops than the 3 track main look of NTRAK modules though.

[robert3985]

As far as "operating" at "public shows" (as opposed to non-public shows  ) When I take my layout to shows along with my partner-in-crime Gregg Cudworth and his layout half and the rest of the operating crew, we often have a local (the Park City Local) which is a short daily train pulled by either GP-7's or a Consolidation (or MacArthur), that spots and picks up cars at Echo (coal gons and hoppers for the coaling tower to be both set out and empties picked up) a couple of gons full of sand to be set out and a couple of empties to be picked up...Echo Junction was a busy place from 1941 to 1954 when UP stopped using coal-fired engines and demolished the concrete coaling tower the next year since every Big Boy and coal-fired Challenger-pulled freight got topped off (coal, water and sand) on the east-bound main before heading thru Evanston to Green River.

Concrete hoppers were also set out sometimes in the Park City Yard, which was adjacent to the Echo Yard, along with pick-ups and set-outs from and onto the Park City Branch, and from and to the Red Devil Concrete Plant further westward at Devil's slide. Various freight loads were delivered to destinations on the Park City Branch...mainly empty gons delivered to mining locations...then loaded gons brought back on the return trip.

Also, passengers were accommodated early on with a heavy-weight combine in front of the caboose...and later just by the caboose...so the Park City Local was required to make a stop at the Echo Station on the north side of Echo Yard for mail and picking up a few passengers...having to cross both busy mains in the process...both coming and going from the Park City Branch in the morning and evening with the final daily destination being Ogden.

Freight extras often took one of the yard sidings at the Echo Yard waiting for a City Streamliner to come through both from the east and the west.

The track plans for our modules are copied from the prototype track plans, being condensed drastically in length, but not in the width, so even though I didn't know crap about designing a yard or an interchange, I just reproduced the prototype plan in a shortened version for Echo, and it works great.

Since the layout can easily run three or four 9' 7.5" trains on each mainline for the extras and passenger trains, plus two shorter locals, the trains keep running for the public to enjoy...those who just want to see motion on a layout.

On the other hand, quite a few onlookers take great interest in watching a crew doing switching on both my layout half and on Gregg's.  Since we operate only from the front of the layout, it's a great time to have a conversation with an onlooker and answer any questions they may have since both the Park City Local and the Evanston Locals only ran once a day and weren't tied to a tight schedule like the extras and passenger trains were.

Sooo...Since the double-tracked mainlines have a river on one side (the outboard side of the layout) and high cliffs and canyons on the other side, most of the places that generate cars needing picking up and setting out are on the "north" side of the mainline, both mainline tracks being connected by long center sidings and appropriate spur trackage for the Concrete Plant and for making up the Park City Local at the small Park City Yard adjacent to the concrete coaling tower...which sits between the double-tracked mainlines, with a spur running underneath the tower that's elevated on the east side of the tower (taller than the mainlines) so the coaling tower crew can use gravity to drift full hoppers & gons under the tower and dump their loads...then drift the empties on that little spur to the west of the tower, where they're parked until picked up by the Evanston Local, taken to Evanston 30 something miles eastward and dropped off there...and full coal hoppers/gons are then coupled to the Evanston Local to drop off at Echo on the way westward back to Ogden.

Pretty simple stuff, and it works well because I copied the prototype track plan...shortened for approximately a 30 to 34 maximum car train length for trains that will be parking on the center sidings.

Part of the enjoyment is chatting about the historical aspects of it with onlookers, and although I'm not 100% sure we've got it exactly correct how things were switched at Echo, it works, and is quite interesting for people to watch.

So, I kinda disagree with the idea of not being able to have a semblance of "prototype" operation because of the "event format", but, it definitely does take some planning and effort to do it, but for me and those who operate on the layout at shows, it's a lot of fun and very enjoyable interacting with guests and onlookers!

I think that with that planning and thought, operation at a show could definitely be accomplished with T-Trak.  We didn't do it throughout the show, but two or three times a day, depending on the length of the show on that particular day...and advertised it with a sign so that those guests and onlookers who were interested could come and join in the fun.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[dem34]

It's not the module format, it's the event format.

And its not even getting into how annoying it can be if you end up a part of OPs when its not really communicated beforehand, especially if %95 of the members present are just trying to run trains.

[Maletrain]

I think the biggest restriction on "ops" by T-Trak modules is the rather shallow depth of the modules.  The amount and orientation of industry trackage is severely limited, unless you make a dedicated module that attaches to the main loop as a spur, going off on a separate table.

Still, some ops is always possible, with smallish industries on regular modules of various lengths.

For ops, the outside loop could be designated as the mainline and operated in both directions, with the inner loop being a "siding" where work is done while mainline trains go by.  Plenty of crossovers between loops would allow for runarounds and "meets" on the outer mainline with the inner loop being the passing siding.

Or, for double track mainline operation, turnouts on the outer loop could simply cross the inner loop on diamonds to get to the industries inside.

Whatever strategy is employed, it would require some sort of dispatcher to make it work.  Having some trains run in circles unattended is just not going to be compatible with ops using the same trackage to stop trains for switching purposes.

[MK]

Planned T-TRAK Ops Session at 2026 Chattanooga NMRA Convention / National Train Show.

http://www.gvrrclub.org/OPSplan.php

[arbomambo]

I think the biggest restriction on "ops" by T-Trak modules is the rather shallow depth of the modules.  The amount and orientation of industry trackage is severely limited, unless you make a dedicated module that attaches to the main loop as a spur, going off on a separate table.

It appears that a lot of folks have a number of misconceptions about T-TRAK and ‘standards’
I think the biggest misconception I encounter is that all T-TRAK layouts consist of modules placed back-to-back, in oval arrangements.
We routinely create layouts with single spine/rows of T-TRAK modules, in a point-to-point configuration, either with balloon return modules on either end, or using large back-to-back module ovals that act a balloons.
We have MANY 20-24” deep modules with industries that easily fit on a single table spine, but, even when we create back-to-back oval configurations in a layout, we ALWAYS use double, or even triple-wide table setups so as to allow our large 19” radius corners and/or endcaps. 20-24” deep modules can go anywhere within these layouts.
   The only factor limiting T-TRAK layout design and operations are the artificial limitations that many seem to impose upon the format.
 

[garethashenden]

It's not the module format, it's the event format.

It’s a lack of planning and coordination problem.

As Bob points out, along with every British exhibition layout, it’s entirely possible to have prototype operations at an event. But, if it’s a “bring your module” event without a cohesive layout plan then ops are a non starter. If bringing a module and running trains appeals to you, great! But the jumbled mishmash of scenery turns me off. As does the code 80 track. I actually care less about ops than how disjointed everything looks.