Great for the corporations -- bad for us

[peteski]

. . .
 I don't know that Kato has changed their loco design or not.

Kato still uses wire-free and glue-free design in even the most recent models (Big Boy)

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Kato still uses wire-free and glue-free design in even the most recent models (Big Boy)

I'd hardly hold their decidedly DCC unfriendly Big Boy up as a paragon of modern model railroad design.

[peteski]

I'd hardly hold their decidedly DCC unfriendly Big Boy up as a paragon of modern model railroad design.

Not saying that it is, but since the question was asked, I just cited the latest example.  But the Big Boy has 2 motors - how's that for "different"?   
Kato does not use any wires or glue in any of their models, and hasn't for the last 35+ years.  I can only go by my first Kato locos (Atlas RS-3 made by Kato).

[davefoxx]

For anybody thinking they'd like to service and clean the truck contacts on their Atlas N scale S-2  --- don't! I suppose it's fine the companies give us design/parts diagrams (mostly), but it'd be even better to give us service tips on how to do simple maintenance and repairs on the damn things.

I wanted to clean the cup[s of the contact plates that hold the s-2's wheel ends -- turns out you have to de-solder the truck wires from the decoder board to have any chance to re-assemble the trucks. Great -- I get to fool with the soundboard just to clean the %$#%* wheel cups. Plus the fact that the axles themselves don't stay in the truck body once it's disassembled.. They just lie there, held by gravity -- there's no little tabs to keep them there if you turn the truck.  After many fruitless tries to reassemble the trucks, I came to the conclusion I'd have to de-solder the truck contact wires from the board, pull the assembly of truck and wire free of the body, and try to reassemble the truck with the wheels, body and contact plates sitting flat on a table-top, and hopefully hold that all together while I shove the outer frame down over the assembly to get it back together. (I haven't tried that yet) And of course re-solder the wires to the sound board, where a slight mistake can trash it.

People have already commented on this retrograde practice of using wires to transmit power to the engine, but I get it -- cheaper, easier. less design hassles to do it that way if they're not a big fan of split frame chassis. And yes, it probably takes a special jig and machine-placed operation to put the trucks together, but hey -- why tell us that? More fun to find out the hard way, right guys?

Lesson: products (all of them not just model RR stuff) are destined to be done the cheapest, flimseist, bare-minimum design, with fastest cheapest way of assembling them, and if with complicated pieces, basically unserviceable to any regular person. And we're supposed to buy them with a smile and live with that.

So ... if your Atlas N S-2 is balky and you suspect dirty contacts ... well, live with it. Or be prepared to pretty much take most of the assembly apart to Clean. The. Contacts. On. The. Trucks.  I suppose one could dunk the whole loco in a sonic cleaning bath, have no idea how that's turn out.  Or do what the manufacturer recommends when something in the product goes wrong.

Just buy another brand-new one.

Well, that’s a really negative and pessimistic post.  I’d suggest practicing your soldering skills.  You will likely discover how easy it is to pop a soldered wire free in less than one second.  Resoldering it is just as easy.  Tip #1: keep the soldering tip clean.

My guess is that the purpose of hard wiring was to make the DCC sound decoders work better and minimize cutout and restarts.  That behavior is way more annoying than desoldering a truck lead once every several years, if even that often.  Hardwiring does not make manufacturing model locomotives easier.  Seriously.

DFF

[jdcolombo]

My guess is that the purpose of hard wiring was to make the DCC sound decoders work better and minimize cutout and restarts.  That behavior is way more annoying than desoldering a truck lead once every several years, if even that often.  Hardwiring does not make manufacturing model locomotives easier.  Seriously.

DFF

I'm sure the hard-wired trucks were simply part of the compromises that had to be made to fit everything in a small-ish space.  Remember that at the time the S-2 was designed, the smallest sound decoder out there was the ESU LokSound Select Micro, which was wider than most hood-unit chassis.  So ESU had to specially design a decoder to fit the S-2 (at the time, I was hopeful ESU would release this as a general-purpose decoder to fit in legacy hood units).  It was a major undertaking, and delayed the S-2's initial release significantly.  But I agree that hard-wiring the trucks provides some additional protection against electrical dropouts - I generally hard-wire trucks in my steam loco tenders even if they start life with the phosphor-bronze pickup strips.  That said, I DID add two 220uf caps to my S-2 to help on the sound front.  It runs and pulls great for its size; the only problem is the E-L paint! 

John C.

[oakcreekco]

For everyone's sake who actually runs their locos, I hope that the "contractors" use a high quality wire on these trucks, and not the junk material used for contact strips that turns black with corrosion by just looking at them.

Time will tell.

[wm3798]

Get a 40 year old S2 model from Arnold.


You can buy 6 of them for what it costs to get one of those newfangled ones!  You can even find a newer one factory equipped with a DCC chip!  (No need for sound cards, the cracked gear makes it sound exactly like an Alco!)

When you keep your expectations low, it delivers every time!

I'll go back to my flea circus now...
Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Get a 40 year old S2 model from Arnold.


You can buy 6 of them for what it costs to get one of those newfangled ones!  You can even find a newer one factory equipped with a DCC chip!  (No need for sound cards, the cracked gear makes it sound exactly like an Alco!)

When you keep your expectations low, it delivers every time!

I'll go back to my flea circus now...
Lee

Oh man, I almost forgot that those were some of the first models with factory equipped DCC!

[robert3985]

Not saying that it is, but since the question was asked, I just cited the latest example.  But the Big Boy has 2 motors - how's that for "different"?   
Kato does not use any wires or glue in any of their models, and hasn't for the last 35+ years.  I can only go by my first Kato locos (Atlas RS-3 made by Kato).

Unless, of course, the model is a KATO Kobo model with extra detail parts...which are glued on using the equivalent of canopy cement.  The printed description on the box says that there are fragile detail parts that will break easily...and also come unglued easily as my experience with them has shown.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

Unless, of course, the model is a KATO Kobo model with extra detail parts...which are glued on using the equivalent of canopy cement.  The printed description on the box says that there are fragile detail parts that will break easily...and also come unglued easily as my experience with them has shown.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

You are really splitting hairs Bob. To me Kato Kobo is no longer a "stock Kato". YMMV.  Don't own any, and not planning on it.  Besides, I don't t think they make them anymore.

Anyways, in this thread we are mainly discussing wires in N scale model locos.  I just threw in the glue-free assembly for extra fun.

[robert3985]

You are really splitting hairs Bob. To me Kato Kobo is no longer a "stock Kato". YMMV.  Don't own any, and not planning on it.  Besides, I don't t think they make them anymore.

Anyways, in this thread we are mainly discussing wires in N scale model locos.  I just threw in the glue-free assembly for extra fun.

Peter @peteski , and I just threw in the canopy glued-on parts on KATO Kobo engines for fun... especially since I recently had a not-so-positive experience with an E-9 Excursion A-B-A set of them.

As for wires in N-scale engines.  I don't have a problem with them, and I've got some really old brass engines that have never had one of their wires come loose or degrade.

On the other hand, I've had plenty of press-contact wiper-equipped (between the bronze springy wipers and the light board) engines have problems.  Easily fixed with a dab of solder at the light board/DCC board, but "fixed" being the operative word, as my engines with soldered wires haven't needed fixing.

I live in a very low humidity region, sooo...maybe that has something to do with the wires on my locos not being problem areas.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[sirenwerks]

Nobody is getting rich in the model train industry.

I don't know if they are getting rich, but Kato seems to be going strong.  Then again, they cater to two continents with strong train geekdom.


I still think the best option for decent sound in N scale is an operator worn unit, not sound in every single locomotive. Imagine the cost savings...  I need a patent lawyer....

[Chris333]

https://kyodonewsprwire.jp/release/202307056924

[MK]

https://kyodonewsprwire.jp/release/202307056924

Damn!  Missed it by a year!  Will be there this fall and I would have added this to my list!  But I will definitely visit the Kato Hobby Center in the Tokyo though.

[Jesse6669]

I still think the best option for decent sound in N scale is an operator worn unit, not sound in every single locomotive. Imagine the cost savings...  I need a patent lawyer....

Augmented reality glasses and earphones that apply stereo train and ambient sound with optical tracking to the locomotive you pick... might even add exhaust/smoke.  Has potential!