Rapido newsletter #165, a survey for N scalers

[ridinshotgun]

That is the impression one gets at first (that Rapido targets Canadian prototypes).  But if you go through all the HO product offerings on their website, it's not nearly as "Canada-centric" as it first appears, and they openly state that they are a manufacturer of "high end" model railroading equipment.  As such I would argue that Railwire represents EXACTLY the market they are targeting.

HO Steam locomotives - All Canadian protoype

HO Diesels - FP9 and RDC in Canadian roads, but there are SW1200, PA1, PA2, GP's, and many others in US roads

HO Freight Cars -
This one really shocked me.  I had no idea just how many US transition era cars they make.
They have a lot of Canadian prototypes, but they have a lot more ATSF, BNSF, SP, PRR, GN, CNJ, UP, B&O, and I'm leaving a lot out.  Just glancing through the many pages, it looks like more than half of these are 40 footer transition era cars.   Hoppers, boxcars,
tank cars, cabeese.  We're talking things like US "Northeastern style" cabooses, and PRR X-31's.  Very specific US prototypes.  Many
"lesser known" US roads too.  Over 500 in all, and many many 6-packs.  This all looks like it would be very appealing to US N scale modelers
who can run those longer trains.  It doesn't mean we have to buy 50 cars.  Even a smaller room-sized N Scale layout like mine would look
good with 6 matching cars in a modest 20 car train.  If I were in HO,  a 6-car group in a 20 car train would really be pushing it in this same room.

But... alas...switch to the N Scale freight car page, and while there are US protoypes, all the 40-foot, 1940s, 1950s cars vanish.  I don't
think I saw a single one.  The do have 175 offerings, so it's not like they don't have a lot of N Scale.

You know I take issue with the part I bolded and I have said it here before and been scoffed at but this board does NOT represent the general n scale community.  I am part of a club that has upwards of 30 active members that is part of another group that does Ntrak and Freemo-N on a regional and national level.

The majority of the members of all those groups that I run with are not doing transitional stuff.  Most kick off in the 80's and go up to modern day stuff. My local is a club that is pretty evenly split by guys that are under 50 and 50 up.  The only group that really does transitional stuff are the guys over 50 and they are only about 50% of that subset and really they are about the only group that have home layouts and that is where thier desire to model the transitional era lays.  And I got news for you that group is dwindling.  Heck most of the under 50 crowd that is at least growing in our club doesn't even know of the Wire nor do they really care.  They might do facebook but that is about it.  And the younger guys that are doing or planning home layouts are doin modern based layouts pre-borg takeovers.

So I just have to laugh when someone comes on here and says that this board represents the general n scale community because it doesn't.  Most here just want to believe it but that belief doesn't make it true.

[lock4244]

Intermodal counts as "Unit Trains" FWIW.
But I'm not sweating, since JTC, Kato, Atlas, Athearn and ScaleTrains are already pumping out Intermodal gear.
And knowing Rapido, they'll probably put out some niche Canadian intermodal car that no one south of the 49th parallel has seen before. 

A fair amount of Canadian intermodal equipment started getting into the US after FTA and NAFTA came into effect, abolishing rules that had previously kept them out (rules like prohibition on loading a Canadian built car in the US without the RR having paid duty on said car). I remember being shocked seeing CP 50'or so flats carrying pigs and cans on the WLR out of Buffalo on CR TV train's in the 90's. The seemed out of place on the 70mph hotshots made up mostly of spines and 89' flats. They could be seen all over the US, NY to California. CN stuff less so, but the GTW was host to anything CN could fit through the old St Clair River tunnel at Port Huron / Sarnia, and after the 1994 opening of the new tunnel, everything fit including their pig flats. But you weren't likely to see CN stuff in Atlanta or Salt Lake City or North Dakota.

And since all of the populated parts on Ontario and Quebec are below the 49th parallel... 

[bigdawgks]

     We must remember one thing, that Jason Sharon founder of Rapido Trains is an N Scaler and is building a nice C&N layout, even if there is HO Bias.  Nate Goodman. (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? Cause Jason's layout is definitely HO. 

[thomasjmdavis]

The 3500pd Flexi Flo hopper should do well for them, but yes some of the prototype choices appear to be outside of the mainstream.  If I'm going to choose a prototype that only a handful of roads had, or where the operating era is short, I'm picking something that is enormously popular to the general model railroading collective.  The B&O Wagontop boxcar is a perfect example, as is the Milwaukee ribbed boxcar, as is the XIH State of Maine boxcar.  If it's rare but iconic, it will sell.  I never heard of the barrel ore cars until the model was announced.

I agree the slab side hopper would be a good choice, as they are distinct, had multiple roads/schemes, ran for decades and traveled into the States.

THIS!

While the Flexi Flo hopper is out of my era, I own examples of all 3 boxcars mentioned. (thank you Fox Valley and ESMC) Why? Exactly for the reason Bryan points out- because they are iconic. I saw these cars on the rails when I was younger, and they are representative of their railroads. I also have several X29s, and have built X31s from kits, to represent PRR cars, instead of buying a more 'generic' MTL or Atlas boxcar.  And I have 12 panel cars in GN. I don't focus on any of those roads, but having those cars provides a lot of variation and realism to a consist, so that a freight train does not become a unit train of MTL PS-1s in varied paint schemes.

[bbussey]

... so that a freight train does not become a unit train of MTL PS-1s in varied paint schemes.

This is the primary reason, along with supporting the manufacturers, that I usually buy one example of each model released (bodystyle, not deco scheme) if it fits into one of my eras and always the one that is most prototypical.  I'll buy more than one if the prototype was regularly present in my region.  It adds to the realism of the consist.  There are plenty of N scale models that I have only one or two of, even from the largest manufacturers such as Micro-Trains and Atlas.

[thomasjmdavis]

You know I take issue with the part I bolded and I have said it here before and been scoffed at but this board does NOT represent the general n scale community.  I am part of a club that has upwards of 30 active members that is part of another group that does Ntrak and Freemo-N on a regional and national level.

The majority of the members of all those groups that I run with are not doing transitional stuff.  Most kick off in the 80's and go up to modern day stuff. My local is a club that is pretty evenly split by guys that are under 50 and 50 up.  The only group that really does transitional stuff are the guys over 50 and they are only about 50% of that subset and really they are about the only group that have home layouts and that is where thier desire to model the transitional era lays.  And I got news for you that group is dwindling.  Heck most of the under 50 crowd that is at least growing in our club doesn't even know of the Wire nor do they really care.  They might do facebook but that is about it.  And the younger guys that are doing or planning home layouts are doin modern based layouts pre-borg takeovers.

So I just have to laugh when someone comes on here and says that this board represents the general n scale community because it doesn't.  Most here just want to believe it but that belief doesn't make it true.

The thing is....the 'general N scale community" is not Rapido's market.  Rapido's N market is made up of N scalers willing to pay $50 for a freight car, $75 for a passenger car and $275-300 for a sound equipped Canadian diesel. That eliminates a lot of people.  So, their target market is a niche within the N scale community.  Rapido is not competing with Atlas, Kato and MTL- the suppliers of the vast majority of modelers.  They are competing with Scale Trains, and other high detail/ high price.

This does not mean that modelers of more recent eras are not a sizeable portion of the niche, no doubt they are, as Scale Trains has focused on later eras as well. 

The main complaint transition modelers have with Rapido is not that they don't make transition era equipment. If they want to focus solely on modern equipment, that's fine.  What gets me is that they keep pretending to be in the N scale transition era market, when they aren't, and blaming modelers for not buying what they don't produce.

And yes, I am an old guy.  Old enough to have memories of steam locomotives in revenue service when I was a kid, and eating meals in dining cars owned by railroads not named Amtrak.

[mmagliaro]

You know I take issue with the part I bolded and I have said it here before and been scoffed at but this board does NOT represent the general n scale community.  ...

I chopped off the rest of your quote because I agree with it, and there is no need to repeat.
Railwire does not represent "mainstream" model railroading.  And Rapido doesn't cater to mainstream model train buyers, either.  That's my point.  I don't think  mainstream model railroaders are buying $30+ freight cars and $500 engines.   And since Rapido clearly has made a lot of transition era HO rolling stock and must be making money at it, I don't understand why they think N Scale high-end buyers won't want those same pieces.
...
and now I realize Tom already said about this same thing.      Ha ha.  Oh well.

[John]

I don't think  mainstream model railroaders are buying $30+ freight cars and $500 engines.

I think I am a mainstream modeler .. I don't buy those 30+ cars much anymore -- and never would I spend $500 on an engine

[dangerboy81]

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? Cause Jason's layout is definitely HO. 

That's what I wondered. Maybe he is trolling? LOL. Jason Shron is building the Kingston sub. in Half O. They did hire a few Nscalers, but haha they must have them working in the warehouse!

[rail_nut]

Hi, There is an add-on when you finish the survey asking for  details on what you might want.
Did anyone other than me fill it in?

[dem34]

Anybody have a direct link or copy of the newsletter? Seems they still haven't posted it for the on the site.

[ridinshotgun]

The thing is....the 'general N scale community" is not Rapido's market.  Rapido's N market is made up of N scalers willing to pay $50 for a freight car, $75 for a passenger car and $275-300 for a sound equipped Canadian diesel. That eliminates a lot of people.  So, their target market is a niche within the N scale community.  Rapido is not competing with Atlas, Kato and MTL- the suppliers of the vast majority of modelers.  They are competing with Scale Trains, and other high detail/ high price.

This does not mean that modelers of more recent eras are not a sizeable portion of the niche, no doubt they are, as Scale Trains has focused on later eras as well. 

The main complaint transition modelers have with Rapido is not that they don't make transition era equipment. If they want to focus solely on modern equipment, that's fine.  What gets me is that they keep pretending to be in the N scale transition era market, when they aren't, and blaming modelers for not buying what they don't produce.

And yes, I am an old guy.  Old enough to have memories of steam locomotives in revenue service when I was a kid, and eating meals in dining cars owned by railroads not named Amtrak.

Is that the niche market they are trying to cater to?   I don't think you can compare the niche N market that guys here talk about with the HO market and say that if they offered that stuff in N they would be sell great.  Our sister club is an HO club and almost all of the guys in that club are doing either steam or transition era, which is the solar opposite of N scale modeling I see, I think that is why that section of the HO market sells well.  I mean case in point right now they are having problems selling the n scale SFRD(??) reefer which is transition and sold great for them in HO.  Gotta face it they are a company that needs to make money and making money means selling a lot of product. Even if you sell a car at $50 a pop (which guys here say they would pay for their transition era HO cars done in N) those guys say they would purchase 2 or 3 at that price but on a high volume car like the recent PCF box at $30 each guys were buying multiple runner packs of six cars. So they are making more money selling more more cars at a lower price than a few cars at higher prices to meet smaller demand.  Right now it is kind of highlighted by the fact that they are having issues selling the reefer while they are blowing orders out of the water for the bulkhead flat  They also did that with the recent coal hoppers and PCF boxcars (none of those big sellers are in that market that you say they are targeting). Strangely though the procor hoppers are not selling well.  I just don't see them pushing the point that they are a niche n scale transition modelers supply company.

As another thought:

I still think they deserve some criticism since they have had their fair share of problems.  Look at the issues with the St. Charles Pointe vans, coupler height was all fubar. Those meat reefers with horrible sides. The GMD's had issues with wheel gauge and decoders and now it appears that the coal hoppers are also having wheel issues that they are trying their best to sweep under the rug.  Oh didn't the recent Canadian passenger cars have issues too with runability?  There is a thread right here on the TRW about it. Every manufacturer seems to have a turd every once in a while but recently they have had more than their fair share and I think they are complaining about the legitimate complaints from modelers in their letter.  I mean it's pretty simple if they had better engineering or better QC then these complaints wouldn't have legs to stand on.  Do they have the same number of issues with the HO line?

[ridinshotgun]

Anybody have a direct link or copy of the newsletter? Seems they still haven't posted it for the on the site.

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-165---New-freight-cars--order-deadlines-and-N-scale-.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=TAaohuaRrms

[dem34]

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-165---New-freight-cars--order-deadlines-and-N-scale-.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=TAaohuaRrms

Thanks
reading it does confirm a lot of my thoughts
The barrel ore cars seem like a huge misstep that they see brewing, like they expected huge pre-orders from Unit Train runners that never appeared, which I can kinda also feel with a few of the survey questions nudging about unit trains and freight sets. Which beside the obscure prototype also makes me wonder if they consider their reputation. If you have a large string of releases with poor but fixable operation specific issues (wheels, couplers), that has to be one the back of somebody's mind if they plan to buy a few dozen of them.

[Cajonpassfan]

I'm always reluctant to get involved in discussions of this type; by their very nature, they seem to me to be just so much predictable noise (no disrespect to any one opinion here). But we are all friends here, so here goes:
As somebody observed above, we are definitely a fickle bunch, divided by interests, modeling eras, a multitude of prototypes, and quality/cost expectations. After fifty five years in N Scale, I'm not sure Iknow with any degree of certainty what the mainstream in N scale is. I do know that I wouldn't want to be in a position having to decide what to produce knowing the success or failure of my company depended on it. (I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pick the largely unknown in the US barrel car, no matter how nicely rendered).

But I do know (or think I do) that there has been a resurgence of available late steam in our scale, perhaps driven by availability of unique sound. BLI, Bachmann, Athearn have all produced multiple models that seem to sell in quantity, and for good money, judging by the number of reruns. But there's not much new steam or transition era rolling stock coming out. Athearn keeps pushing their old poorly done "old timey" cars (run those with a Bg Boy!), BLI has a few, including the awful mooing stock cars, and Bachmann cars I don't even want to talk about Rapido? Sorry but the new SFRD reefer is not a steam era or even a transition era car, unless one models West Virginia coal country. Not too many mechanical reefers there...

So yea, I do think there's an opportunity to do transition era cars that have been done in HO but not in N. The X-3 tank comes to mind, where one could buy a bunch to model an oil train, or the radial roof or ATSF box cars that haven't been done in the scale before. I can see that Rapido is a bit reluctant to venture into the N scale car market after  less than stellar car sales, for whatever reason. Meat reefers anyone? (I did buy a bunch). So I'd cut them some slack, even if the  "humour" of the video escapes me, like the helium in their balloon...

Just my two cents,
Otto