Author Topic: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k  (Read 1382 times)

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6axlepwr

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2023, 08:39:53 PM »
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When I talked to Frank about getting his permission to use his design, but in N-Scale, he was concerned about the ball being to light.

6axlepwr

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2023, 09:10:14 PM »
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I thought I lost my 3D drawings, but I found them and they included the ball. The ball is 0.024" diameter.

ednadolski

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2023, 11:01:26 PM »
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Thanks @6axlepwr for sharing the pics & info.  WRT the ball being too light, yep, that's that thing where physics doesn't scale. Seems there are a couple of options, tho I don't know offhand which might work any better:

 - Increase the internal clearances around the ball, if that is possible to do without compromising the functionality.
 - Some kind of heavier ball, which either means larger (if that could be made to fit) or denser (if such a material exists and still has the needed magnetic properties -- not too sure about that one).
 - Some combination of a larger (overscale - maybe 20% would still look ok?) coupler and larger ball, if such a combo could be found that would work reliably.

Not sure what other possibilites there are, otherwise perhaps there are other alternatives to a locking ball.

Ed

6axlepwr

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2023, 08:00:17 AM »
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There would be an alternative, but it would require a bit more interaction with your operations. Use an actual pin. A pin that is cast in brass or even white metal. The pin would have a loop or a hook at the top. The pin is designed to be installed before the couplers are assembled and would have a keeper at the bottom so it could not be accidentally pulled out when lifting.

The "more interaction" would be that the operator would have to actually pull the pin to uncouple the cars. The pin WOULD be heavy enough to freely fall back down to lock because it would be much larger than a ball and probably more mass and weight than even the HO scale ball.


ednadolski

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2023, 08:49:45 AM »
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Brian when you say 'pin' I am picturing essentially a cylinder with a hemispherical bottom end, so that it would engage with the (unmodified) tab on the knuckle in the same manner as the ball, so that the closing/locking operation would still function as designed.

Perhaps if the pin had a small bit of steel at the top for the loop/hook then it could still be operated with the magnetic wand.  Operating a loop/hook with a pick or tool would need a very light touch to avoid pushing the couplers out of line when lifting the pin.

Ed

peteski

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2023, 01:59:10 PM »
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LOL!  You guys are *WAY* out there!   8)  It would be interesting to see how this works in practice.  :scared:
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Sokramiketes

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2023, 02:42:22 PM »
+1
But just look how cool that image is with the open knuckle.  That's the stuff dreams are made of. 

6axlepwr

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2023, 04:00:41 PM »
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Yes Ed, that is exactly what I am referring to. An actual pin. Your idea there is really good. and easy. Hell, the pin could be cast in brass with a cup at the top. CA the steel ball to the cup and you are as good as gold with the magnet.

I really like this idea and all this discussion is stimulating my brain. It would have to wait till later this year though when I would have the funds to have new molds made. I would want to redesign the shank also. Probably to work inside a Micro-Trains box so it could be a direct retro fit. It would be way easy to duplicate the Micro-Trains shank.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 05:29:43 PM by 6axlepwr »

turbowhiz

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2023, 06:05:00 PM »
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Having done a whole lot of development work on operating scale couplers (in N scale), I would think an operating knuckle might be a little impractical, but a cool concept nevertheless.

If you need to compromise the prototypical look of the coupler by say having a steel ball visible on the top of the coupler to pull the pin, it might rather defeat the purpose. Or making it overscale...

If it’s truly modelled in scale, it would be interoperable with split shank designs like the upcoming N-Possible scale coupler as well as the MTL TSC.

Jbub

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2023, 06:32:21 PM »
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Having done a whole lot of development work on operating scale couplers (in N scale), I would think an operating knuckle might be a little impractical, but a cool concept nevertheless.

If you need to compromise the prototypical look of the coupler by say having a steel ball visible on the top of the coupler to pull the pin, it might rather defeat the purpose. Or making it overscale...

If it’s truly modelled in scale, it would be interoperable with split shank designs like the upcoming N-Possible scale coupler as well as the MTL TSC.
@turbowhiz speaking of the N-Possible scale couple, any news on that front?
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6axlepwr

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2023, 07:16:22 PM »
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Having done a whole lot of development work on operating scale couplers (in N scale), I would think an operating knuckle might be a little impractical, but a cool concept nevertheless.

If you need to compromise the prototypical look of the coupler by say having a steel ball visible on the top of the coupler to pull the pin, it might rather defeat the purpose. Or making it overscale...

If it%u2019s truly modelled in scale, it would be interoperable with split shank designs like the upcoming N-Possible scale coupler as well as the MTL TSC.

Never heard of either of those. That would save a lot of time and effort. I want to focus more on the layout and building models. Not really on designing anything. Except for my models of course.

OK, so I just watched the YouTube video on the N-Possible couplers. What I saw I liked a lot. I just looked up the MTL TSC coupler and it looks very nice too!

Brian
« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 07:21:14 PM by 6axlepwr »

ednadolski

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2023, 07:32:52 PM »
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@6axlepwr there is a thread and some videos that you might want to check out:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=54237.msg743458#msg743458



Ed
« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 07:39:18 PM by ednadolski »

Erock482

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2023, 07:46:00 PM »
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I made some working n scale couplers in resin maybe a year and a half ago. It was based on a design @bbussey sent me. I had to change the geometry quite a bit to make it work in resin but it did work. I faked the AAR coupler vibe. If he’s cool with it I can post it and you can play with it too. The spring isn’t great because resin lacks “memory”.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Where did you source the trip pins? I've been considering a 3D printed HOn3 coupler but finding a source for trip pins is a bit tough

turbowhiz

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2023, 08:35:38 PM »
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Never heard of either of those. That would save a lot of time and effort. I want to focus more on the layout and building models. Not really on designing anything. Except for my models of course.

OK, so I just watched the YouTube video on the N-Possible couplers. What I saw I liked a lot. I just looked up the MTL TSC coupler and it looks very nice too!

Brian

N-possible only came about because of my progressively more sophisticated efforts to make the TSC a functional coupler (it really isn’t in its stock form). I never had commercial ambitions at all, but the end result was something so effective and elegant that I just couldn’t ignore the market potential. It was a slippery slope, and I’ve fallen down hard for better or worse… My own modeling ambitions have suffered greatly!

peteski

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Re: AAR Type E Coupler in N Scale from the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2023, 08:52:29 PM »
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N-possible only came about because of my progressively more sophisticated efforts to make the TSC a functional coupler (it really isn’t in its stock form). I never had commercial ambitions at all, but the end result was something so effective and elegant that I just couldn’t ignore the market potential. It was a slippery slope, and I’ve fallen down hard for better or worse… My own modeling ambitions have suffered greatly!

Your earlier post stated "...split shank designs like the upcoming N-Possible scale coupler..." and here you state "...I’ve fallen down hard for better or worse…".  So which is it?  Is the project dead or still alive?
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