Author Topic: Good "training" brass kit  (Read 1525 times)

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wazzou

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2023, 02:17:58 PM »
+1
I can't be the only one who initially saw this as "Bras".
Bryan

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mu26aeh

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2023, 02:30:02 PM »
+1
A lot of our drivers use CA to seal up cracks in their fingers during the winter.  Only hurts for a split second

peteski

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2023, 02:36:52 PM »
0
No but I can try!  It did take several days of showers for my "bandage" to fall off of my skin!

Skin and bandages are porous . . . strong bond is guaranteed.  :D

If you could, also compare it to a CA bond on the same material.  If you put down a bead of CA and then apply some accelerator, the glue will set fast.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 02:38:45 PM by peteski »
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randgust

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2023, 09:54:05 AM »
+1
Sounds like fun, but.....

I'm following a couple basic rules with success.

Solder just where you need structural strength.    ACC where you don't.    So I'd solder on anything that's under stress, might get whacked, etc.   Smaller detail parts, ornamental, etc. just get done with ACC.   And I use a needle or other applicator, never a nozzle.

I always considered myself a pretty poor solderer.   Until I learned a few basic rules.  1)  Even if it looks clean, clean it.  Buff it, scratch it, sand it, whatever you can do, but always clean where you want solder.   2)  Get comfy with solder and technique, and practice on scrap.   I've been very comfy with Radio Shack thin rosin core for decades, and a 30-watt pencil iron   3)  You will screw up.   you can wick excess off with copper braid, polish up rough joints with an abrasive disk in a dremel, or even trim excess with an Exacto 11 blade.   Don't panic.   You can always heat, reposition, try again, which you can't do with any adhesive, particularly ACC.   4)   and this is the most important---- learn to use clips, clamps, pads, whatever to hold pieces in place or to prevent prior joints from releasing as you add parts.   The biggest discovery I ever made was using tiny brass Radio Shack alligator clips as heat sinks/clamps.   That was a game changer.  5)   Whenever you can, tin two parts in advance and then solder rather than attempt a flow into two naked parts.  Really reduces overheat issues.

Acc is great, but brittle, and will take enormous pull and shear but also break on sharp impacts.   Solder will be just as solid as original material if it has to be.  I really admire the oriental brass steam locomotives, I've done scratchbuilt brass steam myself, but you'll still find a lot of really crappy solder joints (cold, mispositioned, crooked) that weren't even necessary to be soldered in today's world.

I haven't tried the UV stuff but intrigued as my dentist keeps doing my new fillings with that stuff.   Unreal.   Sure seems to work.

JMaurer1

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2023, 11:28:07 AM »
0
I'm going to have to try some of this. Thanks for pointing it out. Just like canopy glue, something that I learned from others that has a ton of uses other than just hobby related.

Two side notes about CA...I've used it on brass parts before and for long joints, weather (hot and cold) can cause problems since the metal will contract and expand but the glue doesn't and the glue has poor shear strength. Also, in 1966 a CA spray was used in the Vietnam War to reduce bleeding in wounded soldiers until they could be taken to a hospital. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) did not approve its use as a medical adhesive until 1998 however in 1986 an independent study suggests that CA is safer and more functional for wound closure than traditional suturing (stitches). I don't know how many times I've used it to close up cuts
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robert3985

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2023, 12:00:20 PM »
+3
Looks like you've got your practice kits questions solved.

However, whether you decide to use glue or solder, there's at least one tool that you'll find indispensable...it's called an etch bending tool and they come in various sizes, qualities and varieties. 

I build quite a few etched kits, some of the them quite complicated and the tool I decided on was one of the cheapest, but best quality...made of machined aluminum and specifically made for small scales.

I bought it here: https://thesmallshop.com/collections/photo-etch-bending-tools  and the tool was their "The Bug"...the smallest one.

Photo (1) - "The Bug" Etch Bending Tool:


Truthfully, it made a huge difference in my metal bending, even when fabricating non-etched brass/nickel-silver models from scratch.

Photo (2) - The Bug on my messy workbench:


Here's a little job I'm doing for one of my kit-bashed UP CA-1 caboose end-railing structures...a simple C-channel with precision holes drilled in it for the railing stanchions.  I couldn't have done this without "The Bug" in .005" brass sheet...

Photo (3) - .005" brass with pilot dimples cut and ready to be bent on "The Bug":


Photo (4) - Brass CA-1 Caboose end-rail channel in the process of being bent on "The Bug":


Photo (5) - Brass CA-1 Caboose end-rail channel with .007" holes drilled, .007" brass rod inserted showing relative size:



I've also built a couple of UP Cantilever Signal Bridge kits from TrainCat, modified them and added more parts that weren't included in the kit using "The Bug", which made bending up the basic kit parts very easy with its half-etched bend lines, and facilitated me making the additional parts out of .003" brass sheet with no etched bend lines.

Photo (6) - TrainCat UP Cantilever Signal Bridge with scratchbuilt added details on Nate's Layout:



I've found that .005" brass with no etched bend-lines is too thick for "The Bug" and freehand bending should be done with .003" brass maximum or the lips on the tool will deform.

As for gluing.  Although several excellent modelers I know glue their etched kits together using CA and Accelerator (which strengthens the glue joint), I solder all of mine using my usual Superior No. 30 Supersafe Soldering Flux (gel) and 96/4 Tin/Silver silver-bearing solder with my resistance soldering station. 

Yeah, I know that an American Beauty Resistance Soldering Station is expensive, but if you're gonna do a lot of etched kits and any kind of brass model fabrication or repair, then it really makes nearly impossible solder jobs easily done....or jobs that simply couldn't be done with an iron or torch easy as pie.  Frankly, my investment long ago of biting the bullet and buying my 250W American Beauty Resistance Soldering Station was one of the best modeling tool purchases I've ever made...right up there with my lathe and mill and I wouldn't be without it. 

The one great thing about resistance soldering is the extremely local application of heat using either the tweezer tool or the probe.  Both allow you to hold the parts together, apply heat quickly, then instantly back off the heat by stepping off the foot-pedal while still holding the parts together until the solder freezes.  Makes for extremely easy and precise soldering of very small parts...as well as providing enough localized heat for larger, solid metal parts too.

Anyway, good luck and have fun!  I love assembling etched kits and now that I've got the right tools for the job, my frustration level is zero.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

up1950s

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2023, 01:21:51 PM »
0
In lieu of difficult soldering techniques, I am becoming quite fond of UV activated resin glue. 

Unlike CA, it remains fluid until you hit it with the UV light, allowing for much more control while positioning parts.  It has good wicking ability into joints, and once you lock in one spot, you then can rotate the part around to allow the UV light to set the rest of the joint without fear of disturbing the original positioning.

A plus to the resin is that excess can be wiped away prior to setting the glue, unlike CA which will immediately stick to everything, including your fingers.

It also works REALLY well on FUD/FXD printed Shapeways parts.

I have not tried to disassemble a joint on a metal part yet to see if heat will break down the joint as it does with CA.

I really like the applicator on the J-B Weld product, but sometimes the black squeeze area does not fully collapse the tube inside and I have to disassemble the applicator to use all of the product.  I like to squeeze some out on a card and use an old white micro brush stem with the bristles removed for a fine tip.



https://www.homedepot.com/p/0-18-oz-SuperWeld-Light-Activated-Glue-33301SRP-6/308683595?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D24-024_004_ADHESIVES-NA-Multi-NA-LIA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-FY21_Sundries_LIA&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D24-024_004_ADHESIVES-NA-Multi-NA-LIA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-FY21_Sundries_LIA-71700000075826943-58700006496586416-92700058691145229&gclid=CjwKCAiAoL6eBhA3EiwAXDom5rhbmQiQ72iPoN8dCfVkjZ5FzzA2LUkdCKvTH066EyClaskBcdR8HBoCs4AQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thanks . ever since Mikey the Molar Masher " dentest " did some work in my White Castle input hole and used IR to set the glue some years ago i've been hopin' for a poor boys offering . Can't wait to try it out .


Richie Dost

learmoia

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2023, 07:27:16 PM »
0
Just throw'n this out there..
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~Ian

ednadolski

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2023, 08:08:30 PM »
0
I bought it here: https://thesmallshop.com/collections/photo-etch-bending-tools  and the tool was their "The Bug"...the smallest one.

I got the big one for doing O scale etches, and so far I haven't made any etches that big yet....  :oops:

Ed

Lemosteam

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2023, 10:20:33 AM »
+2
I got the big one for doing O scale etches, and so far I haven't made any etches that big yet....  :oops:

Ed

I love mine but I did make some changes to it for better grip.

Large nylon washers under the knobs, larger diameter knobs.  I was bending 0.5mm flanges along 6" of half etched phosphor bronze and the cannel kept slipping out until I did this:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=39348.msg480398#msg480398

robert3985

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2023, 10:22:10 PM »
0
I love mine but I did make some changes to it for better grip.

Large nylon washers under the knobs, larger diameter knobs.  I was bending 0.5mm flanges along 6" of half etched phosphor bronze and the cannel kept slipping out until I did this:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=39348.msg480398#msg480398

Thanks for reminding me of your original post.  Ace Hardware will be getting a visit from me tomorrow....

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

C855B

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2023, 01:30:41 PM »
+2
In lieu of difficult soldering techniques, I am becoming quite fond of UV activated resin glue. 
... J-B Weld ...

Many thanks for turning us on to this product, John. It's the cat's meow for... securing handrails!

I've been struggling with a few models (Arnold U28C and BLI RSD-15, specifically) where the handrails fall off if I so much as look at them. Regular CA always results in a mess because you have to jockey the part around to find the hole, and you've spread the glue around as you try to position it and so on and so forth, all hoping that the tiny speck of glue in the hole doesn't solidify first.

In so many words, problem solved with this glue. I'll squeeze out a drop on a bit of plastic scrap and use a round toothpick tip as the applicator for a tiny drop in the hole. If I slop a little out in positioning the stanchion, it's easy enough to wipe off. With everything in place and not "springy", hit the joint with the little light for 10 seconds. Done. I don't have to hit every hole, mostly just the end points and one or two in the middle.

The Arnold model needed this badly. The front handrails would fall off with the slightest breeze. Not afraid to put 'em on the layout now! Nice! Thanks again!

Lemosteam

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2023, 04:16:46 PM »
0
I actually love it for grabs, but I prefer to dip them into the glue while holding them in my flat end pliers with the ends sticking out. Dipping them leaves a little blob of glue on the wire and that will draw into the holes when I put the grab in. Just enough so that it doesn’t mushroom out onto the model.

The adjustment time is what I love most. Just slide the tip of an exacto under the grab for hand clearance and hit the UV.

I like to have the light full on and set it down away from the work. No fiddling with the switch. Like I said earlier, I like to yank the light out of the squeezer so it’s handy.

Another tip I have just recently started is to take a scrap of stainless etch fret, and place that flat on the end of the nozzle, the hit it with the light. Then when you need more, just snap it off the end and you have a clean hole and no glue to get into the cap. I have had to use pliers to get the darn cap off.

C855B

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2023, 05:04:04 PM »
0
Something else I need to check is what wavelength the UV light is emitting. Since I can sort of "see" UV due to one cataract replacement lens, I can determine whether an emitter is 365nM or 395nM.

395 has enough visible purple to be noticeable, quality 365 emitters are almost invisible (tho' I see it as very white*). Professional UV-florescent paints like the kind used on "blacklight" posters are sensitive to 365 but not 395. UV-sensitive resins can be either, the shorter wavelength preferable since it is less likely to cure under ambient room lighting. Most 3D printing resins are 395nM-sensitive, although I noticed that the AnyCubic curing machine has an equal number of both emitters.

EDIT: The JB Weld UV light is 365nM.

The upshot for me is I have a 365nM flashlight, the kind that bouncers use for checking invisible hand stamps. It's been handy for playing with the UV paints I've been trying for various layout projects.

* - Not recommended. Indiscriminate direct viewing of shortwave UV light sources can damage the retina. The natural lens of the eye filters out most of the more dangerous wavelengths, and lacking that with the replacement lens I have to be careful. So I have special yellow safety glasses for the UV work.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:49:33 PM by C855B »

peteski

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Re: Good "training" brass kit
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2023, 10:42:13 PM »
0
I'm really surprised that you guys have enough trouble using CA glue to choose the UV cured stuff (which I would still like to see how well it bonds to metal and slippery plastic - I guess I'll have to get some myself).

I also have hard time picturing how the glue cures inside a stanchion mounting hole with the stanchion inserted in the hole.  Since the  walkways and stanchions are made of opaque plastic, how does the UV light get inside the hole to cure the adhesive?


Anyway, back to CA glue.  I also dispense some CA into a little "bowl" (the CA will stay liquid, and usable for an hour or more), then I pick one of my CA glue applicators (made from sewing needles).


I then deposit tiny amount of CA into the hole using the applicator.  The glue does not harden instantly just sitting in the open hole.  I have plenty of time to insert the stanchion mounting tab in the hole.  Next, while the glue inside the hole will harden after some time, if any glue gets pushed out of the hole, I take a MicroBrush and apply some CA accelerator over the glue.  Accelerator hardens it fast, preventing any fogging, and evaporates.  Simple and easy. No fuss, no mess.
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