Author Topic: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch  (Read 19701 times)

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John

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2022, 08:22:27 AM »
+1
I think we're overthinking this a bit on the backdrop. First, the river in this area is about a mile to a mile-and-a-half across. The Camden waterfront for the majority of space between the Ben Franklin Bridge and Walt Whitman (or prior to 1950s) was mostly rail yards and ferries between the two areas, with a few piers similar and then the Campbell's Plant towards the BFB. Behind all that were row homes which would be so low on the horizon behind your modeled piers, I am not sure they would be very visible anyways.

- Phil

There were a couple of "interesting bars" over there in 1975 that we used to visit when my ship was in Philly - drinking age in PA 21, 18 in NJ :)

« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 08:27:44 AM by John »

Jesse6669

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2022, 08:25:53 AM »
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Find an old pic in B&W and use the free AI sites to colorize it.
This is my thinking as well, or look into asking one of the people online who colorize and see if they'll do it for you;  Or learn how to do it yourself (I imagine it's done with layers in photo editing software).  Most of the buildings are brown and gray so shouldn't be too hard--
Or project the image and paint it.



TrainCat2

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2022, 09:25:15 AM »
+1
From Pete's suggestion, here is the Camden Riverfront in 1908 where you can see Cambell's Soup Co, RCA Victor Talking Machine Co, Seth's(???) Beer and Quaker City Oats. The rest I can not make out. The ferry line shut down though in 1936.

https://www.shorpy.com/node/12707?size=_original#caption

Edit:
I do take a few things from this image, the river appears to be only about 1/4 to 3/8 mile wide and the skyline is nothing in 1908. New York Ship Builders was being built about that time, but the structures were not vertically tall. The backdrop should begin with the Ben Franklin bridge on the left to frame the scene which starts at Kenilworrth St with Piers 28 & 30. If nothing of the actual 50's Camden can be found, would it be wrong to use some of Philly's riverside to substitute for Camden to create the length I need????
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 10:00:04 AM by TrainCat2 »
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sd45elect2000

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2022, 10:02:13 AM »
+1
I think I would try hand painting a hazy skyline myself or find someone with more ability to do the painting.

Randy

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2022, 10:07:13 AM »
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I think I would try hand painting a hazy skyline myself or find someone with more ability to do the painting.

Randy


Yeah, you know... in that era things are very easy to be hazy.

Take a look at some of the pics here: https://whyy.org/articles/remnants-our-industrial-past/

Also, Bob, I'm sure you know all about the various Philly research sources like https://www.workshopoftheworld.com/ and https://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchive/Home.aspx right?

@GonzoCRFan , I'm sue you've got a whole LIST of bookmarked stuff that might be helpful.

Jesse6669

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2022, 10:34:39 AM »
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I was curious about modeling an N-scale Liberty Ship and can't find anything available. Especially with several in port this could be quite a task.  There's a rather good design on ThingVerse though, so I pieced it together to check it out and test the size;  So it's 3 feet long (full size) even in N scale.   :o Anyway.. if I was doing it, I'd try use this design.  First, cut off the hull at the waterline (and as far back as needed) and omit all the superstructure, etc.  Then, using that file I'd have a CNC service mill the hull in wood or styrene.  Then I'd 3D print the needed superstructure, hatches, etc.  I'd add some etched brass railings and ladders if I wanted the detail.   

Just for grins I'm making inquiries about machining the hull just to see what it would cost.

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TrainCat2

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2022, 12:39:58 PM »
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Take a look at some of the pics here: https://whyy.org/articles/remnants-our-industrial-past/

I loved the read, but nothing to really use

Also, Bob, I'm sure you know all about the various Philly research sources like https://www.workshopoftheworld.com/ and https://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchive/Home.aspx right?

You bet. That is where I got the b/w pics of the street trackage. I had downloaded about 200 images for reference.

I did find some ariel pics of the Camden Riverfront, both north and south of the BF bridge.  Here are the interesting ones south of the bridge.

Camden Riverfront south of Ben Franklin Bridge 1931
http://www.dvrbs.com/camden/DB-PF/CAMDEN-1931.JPG

Camden Riverfront south of Ben Franklin Bridge 1939
http://www.dvrbs.com/camden/DB-PF/CAMDEN-03.JPG

Camden Riverfront south of PRR Ferry Terminal 1939
http://www.dvrbs.com/camden/DB-PF/CAMDEN-04.jpg

Camden Riverfront at Reading Ferry Terminal 1939
http://www.dvrbs.com/camden/DB-PF/CAMDEN-05.jpg

Camden Riverfront south of Reading Ferry Terminal 1939
http://www.dvrbs.com/camden/DB-PF/CAMDEN-06.jpg

Camden Riverfront at PRR Ferry 1932
http://www.dvrbs.com/camden/DB-PF/CAMDEN-1932.JPG

Camden Riverfront Points of Interest 1932
http://www.dvrbs.com/camden/DB-PF/CAMDEN-WATERFRONT-1D-b.jpg

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boB Knight

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TrainCat2

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2022, 12:49:05 PM »
+1
I was curious about modeling an N-scale Liberty Ship and can't find anything available. Especially with several in port this could be quite a task.  There's a rather good design on ThingVerse though, so I pieced it together to check it out and test the size;  So it's 3 feet long (full size) even in N scale.   :o Anyway.. if I was doing it, I'd try use this design.  First, cut off the hull at the waterline (and as far back as needed) and omit all the superstructure, etc.  Then, using that file I'd have a CNC service mill the hull in wood or styrene.  Then I'd 3D print the needed superstructure, hatches, etc.  I'd add some etched brass railings and ladders if I wanted the detail.   Just for grins I'm making inquiries about machining the hull just to see what it would cost.

So I will be making the Liberty Ships and the T2 Tanker at 1/175 scale because A) That is the scale of the plans I found and acquired. B) There are 1/350 scale plastic models available so I can use them for detail reference and it is just a simple x2 of the dims. C) I will be able to model the Liberty Ship from the wheelhouse to the bow in 1/175, but in N, no wheel house so it would look a little funny. The hull for the Liberty Ship will be vacuum formed after I make the buck. All 8 hulls can be done in under 2 hours. The deck details will take much longer, but I can assembly line those too.
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boB Knight

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muktown128

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2022, 12:59:30 PM »
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If you're looking for a Liberty ship or a T-2 tanker, you may want to see what Pete Nolan @pnolan48 has available.  Pete has done a variety of ships.

mu26aeh

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2022, 01:46:24 PM »
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If you're looking for a Liberty ship or a T-2 tanker, you may want to see what Pete Nolan @pnolan48 has available.  Pete has done a variety of ships.

Mentioned on the last page :D

muktown128

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2022, 06:46:08 PM »
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My bad, I should have gone back further and read the previous posts.  :facepalm:

GonzoCRFan

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2022, 10:05:44 PM »
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The PRR had at least three Coal Loading Piers over time. Here is Piers 53 and 57 with the yards to support the loaders. Take note of the area in the top center. This was the large B&O Stock Yards that were being built and a meat processor to it’s right. The large complexes south of the PRR Coal Pier is Franklin Sugar Refining and Philadelphia Ship Repair.



Bob,

Not quite sure where this information came from, but it's not correct. This photo is from the heart of the Reading's turf, at the south end of Port Richmond Yard. The pier with the McMyler coal dumper is Pier 18. The next pier to the north is Pier 14, mainly used for unloading ore ships. The yard in the top center is PRR's Norris Street Yard that handled traffic for the Commerce Street Branch. I don't know of any stockyard/slaughterhouse in the area and hope there never was. Most of the local industry dealt with metal processing/galvanizing and to this day surface soils have so much lead in them that local residents are warned not to grow anything they intend to eat in their gardens. The shipyard to the south is William Cramp & Sons, went out of business around the Depression but got a reprieve during WWII. The nearest sugar refinery was National/Jack Frost, about a mile to the southwest. Franklin Sugar was way farther down Delaware Ave in the vicinity of Pier 40, they were taken over by American Sugar (Domino) around the '50s.
Sean

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2022, 10:32:01 PM »
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If anyone has any images of the B&O Stockyards and the Perishable Products Terminal, that would be a huge help. I have found a single pic of the stockyard taking of a corner with the utility meters.

You mean the perishable terminal across Delaware Ave from Pier 80?

Sean

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2022, 10:47:05 PM »
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Edit:
I do take a few things from this image, the river appears to be only about 1/4 to 3/8 mile wide and the skyline is nothing in 1908. New York Ship Builders was being built about that time, but the structures were not vertically tall. The backdrop should begin with the Ben Franklin bridge on the left to frame the scene which starts at Kenilworrth St with Piers 28 & 30. If nothing of the actual 50's Camden can be found, would it be wrong to use some of Philly's riverside to substitute for Camden to create the length I need????

New York Shipbuilding wasn't very tall, but the structures were large enough that I imagine they'd need to appear on a backdrop, as shown by these shots showing what was across river from Piers 78 and 98:





I think using shots of the Philly side to represent the Camden side would be a bit of a stretch, both sides had their own unique looks. Maybe if you look through the online repositories of Dallin Aerial Surveys and the Aero Service Corp that are online from the Free Library of Phila and the Hagley Museum would be helpful.
Sean

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Re: The B&O Delaware Avenue Branch
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2022, 03:28:24 PM »
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Bob,

I don't know of any stockyard/slaughterhouse in the area and hope there never was.



I was told there was one, it took me a little searching to validate it. On the NW corner of Dilworth St and Tasker St which puts it right in front of the B&O Pier #62 / 63. The triangular building on the map.



In this aerial, you can see the open and covered pens.



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boB Knight

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