Author Topic: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot  (Read 1809 times)

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mecgp7

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Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« on: May 21, 2022, 05:22:41 PM »
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Has anyone experienced chassis (frame halves) rot with a Life Like SW9/1200? I picked up a unit recently and when I couldn't get the shell off I looked and saw that the metal frame halves were "swollen". I used needle nose pliers to attempt to get the chassis out but it started to crumble. Worst case of rot I have ever seen. The whole frame crumbled into BB size pieces. I've never had any issues with these locos and I have quite a few of them. I don't know the vintage of this particular unit, but it had a USN paint scheme.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 11:36:19 PM by GaryHinshaw »

mecgp7

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Re: Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2022, 11:28:18 AM »
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A little further research and my SW is a SW1500 from MTL. I also found the same loco on eBay with the same problem.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ebay.com/itm/154909025042&ved=2ahUKEwi7xoShtfP3AhWkjYkEHXK1A9kQjjh6BAgJEAE&usg=AOvVaw3AMmalmLMFcURaqbvpjiJY

tehachapifan

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2022, 12:54:02 PM »
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Ugh! Didn't need yet another loco to worry about! :facepalm:

peteski

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2022, 01:47:25 PM »
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I have several Life-Like releases and they all appear fine.  I wonder if the manufacturer of  MTL frames had a bad batch of Zamak. Environment where the loco was stored likely contributed to the problem.  Too bad that we still see the Zinc-pest in fairly contemporary items.  I would have thought that the problem resolved decades ago.

Any chance you could post some photos of the crumbled mess for all to see (and to share in your misery)? Maybe MTL has some spare frames they could sell you?
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wazzou

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2022, 01:52:12 PM »
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I believe Walthers was the vendor for the MT chassis’s so it wouldn’t surprise me if Walthers sought out a low cost factory.
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mecgp7

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2022, 03:19:20 PM »
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Here are some pics of what I have left. The remaining pieces where just too small. Not sure how good my phone camera is so you may need to enlarge the photos.
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peteski

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2022, 03:35:15 PM »
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Nope, those photos are plenty large.  That's nasty! Like you, I have never seen Zinc past this severe!  Wow!

Makes you wonder where this model was stored for the last few years.
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thomasjmdavis

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2022, 03:49:59 PM »
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Looking at the photos, if I hadn't been reading about zinc rot for 50 years, I would have thought somebody tried to clean it with acid. 

Although...you never know. 

I have several Life-Like releases and they all appear fine.  I wonder if the manufacturer of  MTL frames had a bad batch of Zamak. Environment where the loco was stored likely contributed to the problem.  Too bad that we still see the Zinc-pest in fairly contemporary items.  I would have thought that the problem resolved decades ago.
You may be onto something with the "environment" hypothesis.  Salt air at the factory? Or high sulfur-dioxide levels plus high humidity in the casting area? And/or in storage or former owner locations?

Granted, Wikipedia is not necessarily the best source, but here is that they have to say about zinc pest-
Quote
Zinc pest (from German Zinkpest), also known as zinc rot and zamak rot, is a destructive, intercrystalline corrosion process of zinc alloys containing lead impurities.[1] While impurities of the alloy are the primary cause of the problem, environmental conditions such as high humidity (greater than 65%) may accelerate the process.
Interesting that the Wiki for actual Zamak (as opposed to generic zinc alloys) is:
Quote
A large problem with early zinc die casting materials was zinc pest, owing to impurities in the alloys.[3] Zamak avoided this by the use of 99.99% pure zinc metal, produced by New Jersey Zinc's use of a refluxer as part of the smelting process.

This leads me to the conclusion (assuming the wiki articles are correct) that many manufacturers are knowingly or unknowingly using cheap zinc alloys while they are advertising zamac.  Yet another issue that arises, I suspect, when one is not really a manufacturer, but rather an importer for models made by overseas factories, without adequate supervision.
Tom D.

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Nato

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2022, 04:04:12 PM »
+1
       I had a S***t Pot of Lifelike SW locomotives before I moved and equipment was sold, given away and layout moved. Never any frame rot (ZP) and you say this was it the MT drive train. Sorry to hear and see about this. Nate Goodman . (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

mecgp7

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2022, 04:35:44 PM »
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Looking at the photos, if I hadn't been reading about zinc rot for 50 years, I would have thought somebody tried to clean it with acid. 

Although...you never know. 
You may be onto something with the "environment" hypothesis.  Salt air at the factory? Or high sulfur-dioxide levels plus high humidity in the casting area? And/or in storage or former owner locations?

Granted, Wikipedia is not necessarily the best source, but here is that they have to say about zinc pest-Interesting that the Wiki for actual Zamak (as opposed to generic zinc alloys) is:
This leads me to the conclusion (assuming the wiki articles are correct) that many manufacturers are knowingly or unknowingly using cheap zinc alloys while they are advertising zamac.  Yet another issue that arises, I suspect, when one is not really a manufacturer, but rather an importer for models made by overseas factories, without adequate supervision.
The example on eBay that I provided a link to is proof that I ain't the only one. I wonder if storage conditions do affect this. It is really an interesting phenomenon as the frame halves expanded so much that the shell actually split at the rear.  Fortunately I happen to have another set of chassis frames.

djconway

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2022, 07:43:40 PM »
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I don't think it would have been storage conditions. I had 8 IM F3's and F7's all stored in the same box 3 got rot and 5 didn't. I couldn't tell you which run(s) they were from.

JMaurer1

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2022, 12:00:40 PM »
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Don't let DCESharkman know...I don't think he can stand another disappointment
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John

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2022, 05:33:01 PM »
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Don't let DCESharkman know...I don't think he can stand another disappointment

Ha -- there is a handle I haven't heard in a long time ... "covert operator"

eja

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2022, 12:33:33 AM »
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Why not send what is left to MT and ask for a free replacement ?

mu26aeh

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Re: Update: MTL Life Like SW Chassis Rot
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2022, 12:44:45 AM »
+4
@MTLJoe @MTL_Brandon , clean up on aisle 5