BLI redesigned their SD40-2 because.... why?

[oakcreekco]

Pickup strips are ugly when you can see them.  I.e. they are ugly on Atlas Dash-8s and some other Atlas models.  And they are not ugly on Kato models, which are always designed to hide them from view.  Always baffled me that Atlas didn't seem to care after about 2000.

I can't figure that out either. The Dash8's are nice looking locos, but Atlas only went 90% of the way to finishing the job.

I know that tooling is expensive, but so are these locos. Guess their decision was "it's good enough." A real headscratcher to me.

[peteski]

Not all manufacturers "hide" their pick up strips equally. Some stick out like a sore thumb, others are hidden well.

I'm sure that the correct type and quality wire would be a non headache and reliable, just like a contact a contact strip.

My concern is the quality of the wire, and corrosion possibilities. I've seen more than my fair share of corroded contact strips and motor contact strips from certain manufacturers. I have my thoughts on what causes this, but that's another subject!  😆

Corroded contact strips are an electrical contact headache, but easily fixed (which shouldn't need to be done in the first place.)

Corroded wire is an electrical nightmare. I don't need that. Guess time will tell how it works in the long run.

Exactly, you very nicely expanded on this topic.
 Often the wires are soldered using a acidic flux, which will cause corrosion.  The other big problem is when the insulation is stripped, often some of the copper strands in the wire get nicked. That, along with the fact that there is no strain relief at the point the wire is soldered or crimped into a connector, makes that a weak spot which will likely fail prematurely.

[Teditor]

I don't chime in often, prefer to sit back and watch/absorb the knowledge, at the moment I am finding two frustrations and it's with a Kato, it actually started with the SD-70 Aces. combing the pickup strips with screwless split chassis frames has to me been a difficult curve, yes Kato has thought of the alignment of the drive shafts by tapering them and easing the insertion (blind) of the trucks. At the moment I am servicing a Kato MP36PH and the contact strips just want to jam the trucks no matter how carefully I put them in, the clip together chassis just adds to the frustration, the SD-70Ace had an extra bonus problem, super fine gears on a sprung axle, I know there will be fore and against arguments, but that is what the forums are for, I am seriously looking at hot wiring any loco with pickup strips that shows any sign of problems. The MP36PH will be top of the list.

Ted (Teditor) Freeman
From the Land Down Under

[peteski]

I don't chime in often, prefer to sit back and watch/absorb the knowledge, at the moment I am finding two frustrations and it's with a Kato, it actually started with the SD-70 Aces. combing the pickup strips with screwless split chassis frames has to me been a difficult curve, yes Kato has thought of the alignment of the drive shafts by tapering them and easing the insertion (blind) of the trucks. At the moment I am servicing a Kato MP36PH and the contact strips just want to jam the trucks no matter how carefully I put them in, the clip together chassis just adds to the frustration, the SD-70Ace had an extra bonus problem, super fine gears on a sprung axle, I know there will be fore and against arguments, but that is what the forums are for, I am seriously looking at hot wiring any loco with pickup strips that shows any sign of problems. The MP36PH will be top of the list.

I have not worked on that model, but I suspect that hard-wiring truck of this design will make it really difficult to remove/install them (unless you use extra long wires).

I do agree that Kato has "jumped the shark" when they started using their fine-tooth gears and screw-less chassis.  Looks like Atlas is also going screw-less.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I genuinely find it interesting to see that there are pickup-strip-haters out there.

I wouldn't call myself a hater. But I'd prefer wires.

[larry p mahoning division]

I have 2 of their earlier releases and they run ok, some hiccups with power interruptions. I had to send one of the SD40-2's that I given as a Christmas present back because of another issue. I asked them to replace the decoder with a Paragon 4 decoder. What a huge difference! With that knowledge I bought one of the new releases, and boy am I pleased! I for one like the idea of hard wired trucks. I run a lot of trains on my layout and by no means am I an expert, but 60 car trains with a mid train DPU with no derailments or issues is my standard. 

[JMaurer1]

Mechanical connections are a point of failure...always have been, always will be, because they rely on two contacts physically touching each other and that is subject to corrosion, dirty, or poor contact. While I don't mind them in N scale locomotives, I do mind them in everything else. We have had to forbid them in our modules due to the problems they seem to constantly cause (with the exception of the Power Pole connectors). Solder, as long as it is done properly, is just not subject to corrosion, dirty or poor contact. When I install DCC in a locomotive, I usually hard wire everything, just because it is quick and simple to do and will prevent future issues.

As to the comment about HO always using wires for electrical pick up, the old 'blue box' Athearn locomotives used contact strip pickups for YEARS before changing over to wires and solder.

[bbunge]

After attempting to put a sound decoder in a Kato P42, that seemed to have upset the dynamics of how the strips contacted the truck risers, I got so frustrated that I finally pulled the strips and hotwired the thing.  So far it's running much better.

Perhaps it won't be a problem with today's wires, but I've rewired a number of 1930/40's Lionel pieces where the insultation on the wire has crumbled (and the color of the wire has faded/changed).  Perhaps we aren't expecting that amount of longevity from our current N-scale/integrated circuit devices. 

Bob

[greenwizard88]

I have a ALP45-DP that's had all 4 wires come off of the trucks, and that thing is a pain to get into to fix. I also have a SD60E with strips that has atrocious pickup, although I can't identify why. I open it up, remove one or two pieces of lint, put it back together, and it's running perfectly. Kato and even other Atlas diesels can pick up an entire coat worth of lint before they stop working. I think ultimately that they should be easy to repair, but it doesn't necessarily matter how they're put together.

[spookshow]

My main problem with the truck wires is that it makes it a pain to remove the trucks in order to do a quick/easy wheel cleaning (IE roll them on a piece of track underneath a piece of paper towel soaked with some cleaner). I get that the wires provide more reliable current conductivity, but since that's mainly for sound decoders (something that I don't really care about), I prefer the non-wired trucks.

-Mark

[Mark5]

My main problem with the truck wires is that it makes it a pain to remove the trucks in order to do a quick/easy wheel cleaning (IE roll them on a piece of track underneath a piece of paper towel soaked with some cleaner).

I do this, but I don't bother removing the trucks - I have a "test track" and I just put one truck over the "wet" paper towel and turn the loco "on" to turn the wheels. Once one side is done, I do the other.

(agree that it is more of a pain when removing trucks)

Mark

[ljudice]

I do this, but I don't bother removing the trucks - I have a "test track" and I just put one truck over the "wet" paper towel and turn the loco "on" to turn the wheels. Once one side is done, I do the other.

(agree that it is more of a pain when removing trucks)

Mark

same here - no issues

[peteski]

I do this, but I don't bother removing the trucks - I have a "test track" and I just put one truck over the "wet" paper towel and turn the loco "on" to turn the wheels. Once one side is done, I do the other.

(agree that it is more of a pain when removing trucks)

Mark

I also use the wet towel method for cleaning the wheels (both driven and un-driven wheels).  This works well, but in order to clean the gunk I need to apply some pressure to the model to remove the gunk from the threads.



This particular model (especially without the modification) has very little pressure over those leading and trailing trucks.  I suspect that just running them over a wet paper towel will not clean them very well.  I think that is why Spookshow Mark removes the trucks.

[randgust]

One of the key features on tabs/strips is that then tend to operate as springing to equalize the trucks for better wheel-to-rail contact, and in a well designed system, the end-axle pickups have a little play in them as well so that the effect is that the tabs work all the way down through the trucks to the end-axles. And your pickup wipers need to be sprung HARD, darn it, bent down until they don't lift it off the trucks but all she will take, which keeps them both cleaner and equalizes better.

This is super-evident on my favorite baby, the Kato 11-105 chassis.  Despite my attempts to warn people, I get 'repairs' back where people have soldered wires to the tabs instead of using the wipers, and it has extremely spotty pickup.  So all that has to come out, wipers back in, works great.  But, DC, not DCC.

What you're seeing on putting in wires is kind of a chain reaction to the 'whiz-bang' electronics.  You cut out the frame and reduce weight to fit a decoder, and now a speaker and sound.   That makes pickup unreliable by definition.   Make harder wheels that won't oxidize, but also are more slippery trying to combat wheel tread carbonization.

Remember a basic rule that higher voltage =  sparking, and sparking create carbon on any moving connection.  So a lower-voltage DC vs. a full voltage DCC supply voltage will likely create more 'dirt' carbon on pickup wipers, end-pickups, wheels, everywhere.  I've proven it myself via experimentation on DC vs DCC and even on HO vs. N.    Not theory, results.

So it's really a 'whack-a-mole' here chasing unintended consequences.   A lower-voltage, heavier locomotive with better electrical contact didn't need soldered wires.   You increase supply voltage, and greatly lighten up the locomotive, and now you have a problem.  So any moving surface like springs to end-ears gets attacked, even if it creates more wire breakage at that point down the road.

I just got done on some MISERABLE repairs to a Bachmann K4 tender that had been wired in, broken 2 of 4 joints, I could resolder everything, but it's only a matter of time before it fails again.  I've been messing with this all the way back to the days when Trix had those wipers that went to the fuel tanks on the U28 and F-units, had to replace those with wire when they broke.   And the wires ALWAYS broke.  There's always a stress point where the best stranded wire is soldered solid, and that's always the fail point.  If you can secure it in some manner away from that spot, so that the flex is away from that, you have a fighting chance. 

Wipers do have issues, and one of the things I work hard to do is keep them accessible and removable.  But wow, I rarely, hardly ever, have to clean them in anything.   But like I said, I put as much load on them by rebending as practical, hit them with conductalube during regular maintenance, etc.

Oh, and if you think wipers are just ugly as visible brass, try some Neolube.  I tend to paint mine except where they actually touch something, including the outside of the pickup ears above the truck frame.   Neolube is probably safer and just as effective.   

[basementcalling]

I have not worked on that model, but I suspect that hard-wiring truck of this design will make it really difficult to remove/install them (unless you use extra long wires).

I do agree that Kato has "jumped the shark" when they started using their fine-tooth gears and screw-less chassis.  Looks like Atlas is also going screw-less.

There is no screwing in N scale model railroading anymore.