Q: Suggested places to fabricate PC boards

[peteski]

Agreed, I would rather go to the Netherlands.  But notice my earlier post.  This company has manufacturing facilities
in Europe and the US.  For orders placed from the US, they actually do make your boards in the USA (which is how they can afford
to give me free shipping!    )

Ah, I see it now.    I'll have to check them out for some future projects.  Hopefully the minimum thickness and minimum size of their PC boards will match my needs.

[mmagliaro]

Ah, I see it now.    I'll have to check them out for some future projects.  Hopefully the minimum thickness and minimum size of their PC boards will match my needs.

Funny you mention that.  I don't see anywhere in the board setup parameters where you can choose any thickness other than
1/16".  For little modules like inside a loco, that's probably not going to work well.  I'm surprised they don't at least offer 1/32", but alas,
no.

[peteski]

Funny you mention that.  I don't see anywhere in the board setup parameters where you can choose any thickness other than
1/16".  For little modules like inside a loco, that's probably not going to work well.  I'm surprised they don't at least offer 1/32", but alas,
no.

Thanks Max.  Yes, 1/16 is a bit too thick for boards I'm contemplating making that would go inside N scale models.

[wvgca]

if you want the board to be smaller, you can always go SMT, which would [probably] reduce the size by half ...if you already have through hole parts on hand maybe a mix of SMT and through hole ??

[mmagliaro]

Knowing Peteski, I'm assuming his project would be ALL surface mount, and that giving up another .030" to an unnecessarily thick board is just plain undesirable.

The OSHPark service might do ya, Peteski.  They have a 0.8mm  (about 1/32") that they will do for $5 per square inch.  So a little board
that is 1/2" wide by 2" long, only 1 square inch, would cost $5 for 3 boards.
https://docs.oshpark.com/services/two-layer-hhdc/

[peteski]

Knowing Peteski, I'm assuming his project would be ALL surface mount, and that giving up another .030" to an unnecessarily thick board is just plain undesirable.

The OSHPark service might do ya, Peteski.  They have a 0.8mm  (about 1/32") that they will do for $5 per square inch.  So a little board
that is 1/2" wide by 2" long, only 1 square inch, would cost $5 for 3 boards.
https://docs.oshpark.com/services/two-layer-hhdc/

Thanks Max!

Yes, I haven't used through-hole components for quite some time, even on home-made PC boards.

[mmagliaro]

Thanks Max!

Yes, I haven't used through-hole components for quite some time, even on home-made PC boards.

Happy to be of service.  OSHPark is very easy to use.  You can just upload Gerber files or even easier, if you use
KiCAD, you can just drop the one project file on their site page and they upload it and show you how the board
will look immediately.
And... they are in Portland, OR, so  "go team"... LOL.

[mmagliaro]

Okay, so I learned something that SHOULD have been painfully obvious to me already about that throttle board I posted
the photo of.  PCB traces are elegant and all... but don't overlook how much current you expect them to carry.
For 90% of what's on that board, they are just fine.  But for the main lines that carry the current through to the output to the
track, um, no.    Little .020" or even .040" wide traces don't do so well carrying 3 amps of current.
They don't "burn" or anything.  But there's enough voltage drop to be annoying.  Who wants to give up
1/2 a volt at their output under heavy load?

So, just something to remember if you build a board that isn't just control logic and "milliamps".  If it's motor current,
splurge on the board space and make nice fat traces.

It's okay, though.  I had already planned a bunch of revisions to the board anyway.

[nickelplate759]

Okay, so I learned something that SHOULD have been painfully obvious to me already about that throttle board I posted
the photo of.  PCB traces are elegant and all... but don't overlook how much current you expect them to carry.
For 90% of what's on that board, they are just fine.  But for the main lines that carry the current through to the output to the
track, um, no.    Little .020" or even .040" wide traces don't do so well carrying 3 amps of current.
They don't "burn" or anything.  But there's enough voltage drop to be annoying.  Who wants to give up
1/2 a volt at their output under heavy load?

So, just something to remember if you build a board that isn't just control logic and "milliamps".  If it's motor current,
splurge on the board space and make nice fat traces.

It's okay, though.  I had already planned a bunch of revisions to the board anyway.

Could you rework your board with a jumper in parallel with the overly thin traces, or would that screw up signal integrity (in which case could you just cut the trace and add the wire)?

[peteski]

That is a good idea George.  I have done that in the past. Just solder some bus (solid) wire onto the trace.

And yes Max, for higher current the traces need to be wider.    What weight of copper cladding does that PC board have? 1 oz. copper cladding?

On my home-made boards I usually go overboard in the high current sections.

[rrjim1]

This is the company I use, they do very nice work and fast.  https://www.seeedstudio.com

[mmagliaro]

George, and Peteski:
I already solved the current issue on the boards I have by doing just as you did- just solder some heavy wire along
the traces that need to carry current.  Yes, I believe it is 1 oz copper cladding.  In my revised board, the heavy current traces will be 3mm wide instead of 1mm.  This is just a DC analog linear current amp (a transistor "emitter follower"), so there are no noise or frequency issues to worry about by doing this.

[Viperjim1]

I use to manufacture pcb’s in a shop in Michigan for 16 years. One of the reasons it’s costly is the environment. We had such strict regulations on water, and waste and we’re monitored  by the water department for quality of water discharged back into water system and such, and chemical removal and types of chemicals used and not to mention wages. It’s not like a 3rd world country not paying attention to rules and regulations set by the city and DNR etc.
That’s why costs are higher as well as you will get a big price break by not having plated thru holes and buying bulk as prototype boards are costly because they will more than likely e changed circuit wise. 

[mmagliaro]

I use to manufacture pcb’s in a shop in Michigan for 16 years. One of the reasons it’s costly is the environment. We had such strict regulations on water, and waste and we’re monitored  by the water department for quality of water discharged back into water system and such, and chemical removal and types of chemicals used and not to mention wages. It’s not like a 3rd world country not paying attention to rules and regulations set by the city and DNR etc.
That’s why costs are higher as well as you will get a big price break by not having plated thru holes and buying bulk as prototype boards are costly because they will more than likely e changed circuit wise.

I totally understand this.  That's why I am really trying to source these from a US company, or at least a company that does
the actual manufacturing at a US plant.  I'm just trying to keep the differential between the US/China cost at a minimum.
If I can get them from China for $2, I don't mind paying, say, $6 - $8 for US.  But $30?  That just makes it economically
impossible for me.   So far, all the ones I have tried said they did plated-through holes which is really nice.  Any day here, the ones from Aisler should show up.  I really hope they are as nice as they promised, as they are my best bet for cost vs production location - even though the production time is very slow.

Buying bulk isn't really an option for me, as I'm not planning on going into the throttle manufacturing business.
I just want a handful of these for myself (or an occasional friend or modeler who would like one).  Yeah, if I were making
a couple hundred of these, the cost per board would come way down!

[mmagliaro]

I know this is an old thread, but I thought I would do an update.  I did indeed get the first few revisions of my boards from Aisler (in Germany, but with a plant in the US).  The boards were excellent quality.
However....
I later had to do some other boards that I wanted done in black because they are cover plates, face plates, or labeled terminal boards.  Aisler very much disappointed me because first they said they could only do green, then they led me through a convoluted process of setting up a "business account" and creating some sort of "assembly process" (even though I was only having bare boards made, NOT having any assembly done.  I got emails for multiple people, and responses were very slow.  Finally, at the end of weeks of this, they came to the conclusion that they can't do a black solder mask after all!
--
That forced me to use a China supplier for all the black pieces (JLCPCB, who are actually in Taiwan).  They did a spectacular job.  I knew the pricing was cheap, of course.  But what most impressed me was the instantaneous customer service.  More than once, I uploaded my Gerber files and had questions, and they got on a chat instantly, no matter what hour of day or night it was, looked at the files, and could intelligently discuss PCB design issues.
So despite looking very hard for a US maker that wasn't painfully expensive, I ended up using JLCPCB because they could do the black boards.
--
I will still use Aisler when I can, but I am not too happy with their customer service right now.