Alco Alligators

[keeper]

LS&I bought units 9802, 9807, 9810, 9838, 9841 and 9844 from the ATSF.
First 3 with 2 air reservoirs on 1 side, last 3 with 1 air reservoir on each side.
All had the dynamic braking modification.
9841 is at IRM as GBW 2407 (formaer ATSF 9841).

Thanks for the info.

Thomas 

[randgust]

I dunno.   I looked at Dirk's stuff and I love the shell but hacking the frame seems a bit much, so I'm going to pick up at least one B40 chassis, tinker with my semi-useless C630 for a set of test trucks, and see if Kato wheels can be swapped with Atlas to get a better grip....pile in some lead, and see where one goes as a lab rat.  John Sing documented it well.   I know my stock C630 had nowhere near the TE I needed, four of them simply wouldn't pull the train.  I was really hoping somebody other than BLI would do this.    I've got two kits from Dirk so far, and the accuracy and wow factor is really there, worth the work.

The SD24 and the C630 were my introduction to slick-wheel light-frame Atlas production that got me on this whole tractive effort fixation.  I beat the heck out of the SD24, put as much lead in it as I could, roughed the wheels, and it's 'OK' but not great.  What still blows my mind is the measured proof of the different coefficient of friction between Atlas wheels, Kato wheels, and worn brass (plating gone) on NS rail.  I'll tolerate traction tires, but sooner or later you know what happens.

Just to compare - my current rebuilt MP RSD15's weigh in at 115.2 grams, pull 24 grams, and have a factor of adhesion of 20.8% on worn brass wheels.     A stock Atlas C630 weighs 79.7 grams, pulls 13.7 grams, with a factor of adhesion of 11.5%.   Yeah, that much of a difference.

[Dirk Jan Blikkendaal]

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the thumbs up!
The 4-unit set of zebra striped RSD-15's I run on my own layout consists of 2 modified Atlas C-628/630's chassis (some lead weight added in the fuel tank) and 2 dummies on James Train Parts Alco trucks (1 ESU sound decoder/speaker in 1 unit for the whole set).... This set pulls 70 cars around the room with a max 0,5 % grade without slipping..... thats good enough for me....
Hacking the frame is really not that difficult using a Dremel with a grinding disk..... just work slowly, no overheating..... and getting everything back in alignment is also not very complicated...... medium Zap-a-Gap ACC and the reinforcement strips from the fret are good enough .... see the building instructions on my website.

All the best, Dirk

[reinhardtjh]

BLI just posted a pre-production sample picture on FaceBook for the RSD-15.

https://www.facebook.com/BroadwayLimited/photos/a.1049835628369595/5500457663307347/

[randgust]

OK, I'm now the proud owner of FOUR of these.

You can see my old YouTube video of the four rebuilt/repainted Model Power RSD15's that I've had since about 1984.   Still going.  But nicer shells and 'maybe' better, quieter running are hard to resist.   So I splurged for one back in September to evaluate.

I've always had issues with DCC models mostly about compromises in design and drawbar pull.   That YK unit train of mine is 30 Roundhouse unit train hoppers and a caboose that I got custom decals and painted, every car individual number.   The real YK was ninety cars with six RSD16's up front and four mid-train helpers with an RCE B-unit in the middle of the train.   That's a unit for every nine cars, so four units on 30 cars is not unreasonable, anyway, that's as long a train as my layout can handle in staging.

I'm NOT in DCC on the Santa Fe layout, and although I've done several DCC units with sound for my Ttrak operations, still have no intent of conversions.  So I did what is relatively unthinkable, I pulled all four decoders out of the BLI units and substituted custom cast metal weights I designed.  Added some significant weight.   They do run quite well.   I left the speakers in the tank area, after testing I had way sufficient pull to handle the train uphill on my 2.5% reverse curve climb out of staging.

I carefully removed, labelled the wires, and saved the decoders, just in case.  Not impossible.  Did nothing destructive.   Added LED headlights only to the lead unit.

One thing I still detest about DCC is consisting and speed matching multiple units.   On DC, with my transistor throttles, it just works.  Flawlessly.  Every train I have has at least two, and as many as four units, and that's a minimum of 8 full trains in staging.  Yuck.  And with a 'general' two track main line on a medium sized layout, the need for separate controls is pretty much zero, same with sound.   So yeah, I changed four BLI units back to pure DC.  Horrors.  Light the torches and get pitchforks.

And I didn't quit there either.   I'm not satisfied with the colors or painting.  It might be OK 'as released' from Alco, and after the initial repainting into the 800-series, but I'm doing 1972 and they were the 9800's then, due to be retired by 1974.  Paint had oxidized, significant turbo and oil leaks, showing their age.   So a repainting is in order, followed by weathering, which is darn difficult when BLI glued absolutely everything on.  The striping and detailing is excellent, but the blue is 'off' as well as the yellow.   So we're looking at repainting in Floquil ATSF blue, which is both darker with a tonal shift, and Floquil reefer yellow, which is less brilliant.  And renumbering.  And redecaling with Micro-Scale.   Can't help it, that blue just does not look right to me.  And, BLI also ignored that the handrail horizontals are yellow, not blue. 

Oh, and two more things.   Santa Fe cut a great big hole in the hoods right under the dynamic brake blister about 1964 to increase ventilation up to the dynamic brakes.   Hard to miss that.   And, all units had a roof radio antenna, and lead RCE units had a second one (9844/9846).

Those old model power units with the upgraded five-pole motors have done well, but I won't miss the racket and side shaking.  Of course when I cabrode the IRM unit (ex-ATSF 841/9841/ at Union during Diesel Days, it was sure a racket and rattle experience I'll never forget!
Note the big dynamic brake hole:  https://www.irm.org/player/gbw2407/

[Point353]

Well, I'm disappointed.  Wish Kato had come out with it first.  I use DC so the cost and extras are not worth the price.  Also, I would have to run them by themselves as I can't MU them with any of my DC only locos.

I'm still waiting for the model from Atlas that @Cory Rothlisberger indicated was forthcoming so long ago.

[Mark5]

Heh Cory hasn't worked for Atlas in ages  - what model was that?

[Point353]

Heh Cory hasn't worked for Atlas in ages  - what model was that?

Alco RSD-15.

[Curtis Kyger]

Its probably on the same Atlas To Do list as my low nose RS36's

[Mark5]

Alco RSD-15.

Ah, the landscape changed since back then. I'm still waiting on U30Bs (kitbash project in line, probably around #44 on my list  )

[randgust]

I made a valiant attempt at using the Atlas B40 mechanism and C630 trucks as John Sing did way back when, still have the stuff, but after I got in my first BLI unit and tested it, had to admit that the basic chassis, design, etc. was pretty good and the factor of adhesion was significantly better than expected.  It's the first thing from BLI I've seen that didn't have any pickup issues at all, rock steady.

I have yet to find a decoder that doesn't go nuts with my DC transistor throttles (square wave), first time I tried a Bachmann I toasted it.  I have no doubt that 'pure' DC would work dual mode, but the difference between that and transistor DC on an MU consist is just amazing.   Hence the radical modifications.   I have an old CAMA and a PSI550 with braking and momentum, and a 'spare one' of each now.  I also have full Digitrax DCC for my Ttrak modules, so it's not like I haven't done some serious comparison testing here.

[Cory Rothlisberger]

I'm still waiting for the model from Atlas that @Cory Rothlisberger indicated was forthcoming so long ago.

Ha! That decision was well above my paygrade! Why do you think I quit??? 

[peteski]

Ha! That decision was well above my paygrade! Why do you think I quit??? 

Hmm  . . . and now the same people will be handling MTL's assets and R&D management?   

[randgust]

I'll post this here too just for the record.

The one at the back is 'stock' BLI, the one in the front is after I got done messing with it.   That's the air intake for the dynamic brake, repainting in Floquil Santa Fe blue (note the difference in color), radio antenna, detail painting, renumbering into the 9800 series (1970 renumbering, I'm doing 1972).   Weathering to come at some point, they were getting a little grimy by '72.



Link:  http://www.randgust.com/RSD1501%20comp1.jpg

Ill be the first one to say how much I am NOT a BLI fan, greatly disappointed in the PA1 performance, but these are much, much better.

The model is really very good, I only have some personal gripes in using ACC to glue everything together (like Intermountain) and in the decision to put a decoder in everything instead of making it DCC compatible with your choice of board.  I was reluctant to get one, then after I pulled the decoder, added weight and tested it, I was sold and got three more.   Great performance, very good drawbar pull.

So if I was Atlas, just saying, I'd invest my R&D funds elsewhere.   Relatively few flaws in this execution, and all fixable.   And this from a long time Kato and Atlas fan.  My very first BLI units.

[peteski]

Yes, since modelers demanded (or the manufacturers speculated that demand was there) that oodles of free-standing details are needed, CA glue stains became the norm.

But as far as BLI's decoders go, they finally listened to the customer's pleas and started producing "stealth" version  without decoders.  That was a brilliant move on their part.