Piano Wire Springs for Turnouts

[mmagliaro]

I'm surprised these demos are making these over-center springs out of .020" or .037"  That is really heavy.
The same type of wire can be found under Peco and Micro Engineering turnouts, but I don't have any handy.
Are they really that thick?  I have made a few of these in the past and used .015" steel wire.  It doesn't take
much to hold N scale points in place.

[narrowminded]

What Max said.   And it can even be SS wire instead of carbon steel.

[wazzou]

As I said, for me, the gauge of the wire I chose was a direct result of the hole diameter in the Peco throw bar.

[Lemosteam]

I just preferred the springiness of the PB wire.

[chuck geiger]

Lemo I am thoroughly enjoying Weds nights from Iowa.

[chuck geiger]

@chuck geiger,

These little springs do work.  In fact, I've done them in HO and N scale.  I have two on my layout now.  The key is to make the spring just slightly longer than the two holes drilled into the turnout.  The little kink in the wire gives it the springiness needed to smoothly throw and yet hold the points to each side.  It works, and it'll cost you mere pennies per turnout.

Oh, and, yes, they can easily be added after the turnout is glued down.  In fact, that's the only way that I have done them. If too tight they pop out the points, sent one of the ones bought from Lee to the heap.

DFF

I give up trying to make these...0.20 K&S wire and even bought new plier set. OK I will keep trying...Post COVID fatigue I guess...Any help would be appreciated.

[robert3985]

I give up trying to make these...0.20 K&S wire and even bought new plier set. OK I will keep trying...Post COVID fatigue I guess...Any help would be appreciated.

@chuck geiger , Chuck, I hope you meant you're using 0.020" wire...not 0.20"!    I still think 0.020" wire is too thick.  I make mine from 0.015" Phosphor Bronze wire, but I've made 'em from what I had on hand in the past, which happened to be 0.018" Piano Wire.

You don't specify what kind of "wire" you're using.  It needs to be springy, but, I've made some out of stainless steel wire before too.

The FastTracks Video is pretty complete, but shows it done in HO scale, so the 0.037" wire is way too thick for N-scale.

When I do it, I do it on my bench, even though I've done it in place on both Micro Engineering and Peco turnouts.  On the bench is much easier. 

Instead of scoring a line on the PCB throwbar, then one on the first regular length tie past the end Headblock tie, I use one of my sharp center-punches and get the starting dimples as close to the middle of the width of the ties as possible.  Shimming the points so they're centered with PCB ties is good practice before dimpling. 

Make sure the ties you're dimpling are supported by a block of sturdy wood (I use a scrap piece of 1X4) under the ties so they don't break or crack from the dimpling process, which involves a very light tap with one of my little jeweler's hammers.

I just use a good pin vice to drill the holes...no need for a rotary tool to do it, and I drill my holes the same size as the wire I'm using so there's very little slop.

I cut my spring wire to length before bending it, and de-burr the ends so they'll insert into the holes easily, and I test 'em before bending...both ends into each hole.

Try to get the over-center wire bent as close as possible, but making it just an RCH too long is better than making it too short.  As in the FT video, just bending the initial 30deg bend slightly more will make it possible to insert fully. 

You want it to be just a bit long...not much, but just enough to apply a bit of pressure to the opposite sides of the holes in the PCB ties. 

Don't cut the spring wire ends off until your over-center spring keeps the point toes firmly against their adjacent stock rails, then cut 'em off like the video says...with a cut-off disk in your rotary tool.

That should do it.  I'm not sure what problems you're having, but it's a pretty simple process.

Good Luck!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Lemosteam]

I give up trying to make these...0.20 K&S wire and even bought new plier set. OK I will keep trying...Post COVID fatigue I guess...Any help would be appreciated.

@chuck geiger I have the wire and can make and mail some to you.

Looking at your layout thread, I read that you are still developing a new layout plan.  Let me know how many you need and I will make them for you.

Geesh, maybe I should design a bending gauge in CAD for this.

By the way, I also offer magnetic versions of point throws for Atlas C55 turnouts that are hidden under the track (Code 80 too).  They can also be used to power the frog and are quite robust, with no wire above the track.

Unfortunately, they cannot be installed after track is laid.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vWXLNpDrVPsjBfnL8



.

[chuck geiger]

Thanks for the help, I am using 00.20 K&S piano wire, was brass and it was too soft. I drilled the holes (small bit in pin vise) on the throw bar and adjacent tie. My issue
is bending and shaping the spring. It looks simple on the videos, but in reality it's a pain. I also need a step by step tutorial. So much is left out(my thought) in videos and
conversations without a Step 1, Step 2. I ruined one of the turnouts I bought from Lee last year as a practice subject. popped out the points because the spring was
too tight. Lemosteam, that would be great, please. Should I cancel my Caboose Industries ground throw order? I wanted so bad not to use them and have dummy switch
stands with center over springs. I also have some turnout crossovers where the ground throws can't be used.

I would need 13 of the little boogers. I can send you the wire if you need.

[chuck geiger]

@chuck geiger I have the wire and can make and mail some to you.

Looking at your layout thread, I read that you are still developing a new layout plan.  Let me know how many you need and I will make them for you.

Geesh, maybe I should design a bending gauge in CAD for this.

By the way, I also offer magnetic versions of point throws for Atlas C55 turnouts that are hidden under the track (Code 80 too).  They can also be used to power the frog and are quite robust, with no wire above the track.

Unfortunately, they cannot be installed after track is laid.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vWXLNpDrVPsjBfnL8



.

The turnouts are already in place...

[Lemosteam]

Cancel or postpone it if you have issues with the ones I send.

Have you drilled the holes in the turnouts yet? If yes, just provide me an approximate measurement between them, center to center.  If not you can drill them later.  I have a turnout to make them to and I verify they work.

If you want to drill the holes while I make them go ahead.  Use an 0.020" drill bit.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TVRUirC9SuVRNfnH8

[chuck geiger]

Cancel or postpone it if you have issues with the ones I send.

Have you drilled the holes in the turnouts yet? If yes, just provide me an approximate measurement between them, center to center.  If not you can drill them later.  I have a turnout to make them to and I verify they work.

If you want to drill the holes while I make them go ahead.  Use an 0.020" drill bit.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TVRUirC9SuVRNfnH8

No only drilled holes on test turnout.
Will the bits work in the pic or need 0.020?

[Lemosteam]

No only drilled holes on test turnout.
Will the bits work in the pic or need 0.020?

No.  I will mail you a drill bit too. Hope you have a pin vise or a drill with a small enough chuck.

PM your mailing address to me.

[chuck geiger]

Sure do...with a small collet. You my friend are a Operation Lifesaver....Thank you

[chuck geiger]

Lemon: what do you recommend to shim the points in the center to line up for drilling?