Author Topic: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install  (Read 712 times)

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TW877

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ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« on: January 10, 2022, 07:07:03 AM »
+5
For all those of you that want to put a ESU Loksound Kato board into the Fox Valley Models ES44AC, here is a short summary of how to make it fit.

The board fits the locomotive with just some minor modifications needed, so not a true drop-in job as with most Kato locos, unfortunately.
First of all, no shell modifications are neccessary for the board, just the frame needs some very minor modification work. Also, the copper Kato motor paddles won't fit, so some soldering is required.

The following picture shows the two "problem" areas:

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With the board pushed all the way forward, the board's pads for the Kato clip-on motor paddles are too far forward. They might still contact the motor tabs if these are bent in the right direction, but they will in any case interfere with the frame. The blue marked area shows this problem zone. Moving the board towards the back is not an option, unfortunately, as the front contacts just barely slide into the slots at the front. Finally, the hump for the rear board slots requires the decoder to be bent considerably in order to get it into position; a small blue marking can be seen just to the right of the motor clip mounting pads of the decoder board.

The completed install with all modifications can be seen in the following picture:

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I desoldered the motor paddles from the FVM board, then with a cut-off disk, notched them at the top and then soldered them to the ESU board. With that notch I was able to mount them in the recess at the side of the decoder board and still position them as far back as possible, as otherwise they might not clear the shell. Then I did grind down the frame's forward edge of the rear mounting slot humps. You don't really need to remove much, a gentle slope will let the board slide into position with hardly any bending required (shiny surface just to the rear of the motor paddle solder pads). I also added a little bit of solder to the front tabs of the decoder board, trying to pull it all the way to the board edge, as I did have some intermittent contact problems with the shell back on. It probably just minimally pushes down on the board somewhere, but that was sufficient to interupt the contact between frame and board. With the solder added there were no more problems.
More than enough room on the rear frame for a 9 x 16 speaker with enclosure.
LEDs on the board are useless, the headlight will just very faintly light up. So I used the 3mm LED that came with my decoder for the front headlight; the ditch lights got their own SMD LED as I do like to operate them independently from the headlights - the clear light tubes need to be separated from each other with some black tape. Same on the rear, a new LED glued to the speaker enclosure lights up the rear headlight.

Chris
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 07:10:26 AM by TW877 »

Steveruger45

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Re: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2022, 09:16:24 AM »
0
Nice install.
Steve
Atascocita, Texas

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Re: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2022, 08:10:41 PM »
0
For all those of you that want to put a ESU Loksound Kato board into the Fox Valley Models ES44AC, here is a short summary of how to make it fit.

The board fits the locomotive with just some minor modifications needed, so not a true drop-in job as with most Kato locos, unfortunately.
First of all, no shell modifications are neccessary for the board, just the frame needs some very minor modification work. Also, the copper Kato motor paddles won't fit, so some soldering is required.

The following picture shows the two "problem" areas:

(Attachment Link)

With the board pushed all the way forward, the board's pads for the Kato clip-on motor paddles are too far forward. They might still contact the motor tabs if these are bent in the right direction, but they will in any case interfere with the frame. The blue marked area shows this problem zone. Moving the board towards the back is not an option, unfortunately, as the front contacts just barely slide into the slots at the front. Finally, the hump for the rear board slots requires the decoder to be bent considerably in order to get it into position; a small blue marking can be seen just to the right of the motor clip mounting pads of the decoder board.

The completed install with all modifications can be seen in the following picture:

(Attachment Link)

I desoldered the motor paddles from the FVM board, then with a cut-off disk, notched them at the top and then soldered them to the ESU board. With that notch I was able to mount them in the recess at the side of the decoder board and still position them as far back as possible, as otherwise they might not clear the shell. Then I did grind down the frame's forward edge of the rear mounting slot humps. You don't really need to remove much, a gentle slope will let the board slide into position with hardly any bending required (shiny surface just to the rear of the motor paddle solder pads). I also added a little bit of solder to the front tabs of the decoder board, trying to pull it all the way to the board edge, as I did have some intermittent contact problems with the shell back on. It probably just minimally pushes down on the board somewhere, but that was sufficient to interupt the contact between frame and board. With the solder added there were no more problems.
More than enough room on the rear frame for a 9 x 16 speaker with enclosure.
LEDs on the board are useless, the headlight will just very faintly light up. So I used the 3mm LED that came with my decoder for the front headlight; the ditch lights got their own SMD LED as I do like to operate them independently from the headlights - the clear light tubes need to be separated from each other with some black tape. Same on the rear, a new LED glued to the speaker enclosure lights up the rear headlight.

Chris
Chris I see the first picture but not a second picture. Sounds like it went fairly well for you. Will have to check mine out later.


Benjamin H

dangerboy81

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Re: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2022, 10:51:30 PM »
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I recently did a Fox Valley ES44 with the new Kato board. It was the easiest install I have ever done. I didn't even need to mill the frame for a speaker. I may look into using these boards for my Atlas locomotives too. I really like that the bottom of the board has no components or contact points on it. Obviously I would need to solder the motor contacts to the motor pads, but that is easy. I am installing in older Atlas locomotives so the contacts and pads don't line up anyways. I think the Kato board is just a bit shorter than the/Atlas Intermountain boards as well. I will have to have a good look next time I get a Kato board, everything I have is installed right now.

nscaler711

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Re: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2022, 11:01:26 PM »
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Wonder if it'd work in the SD70ACes that FVM did as well, I think they are the same mechanism.
“If you have anything you wanna say, you better spit it out while you can. Because you’re all going to die sooner or later." - Zero Two

peteski

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Re: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2022, 11:38:41 PM »
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Wonder if it'd work in the SD70ACes that FVM did as well, I think they are the same mechanism.

I know that Intermountain used Atlas mechanisms, but I did not know that FVM also used Atlas chassis.
. . . 42 . . .

reinhardtjh

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Re: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2022, 01:33:05 AM »
+1
I know that Intermountain used Atlas mechanisms, but I did not know that FVM also used Atlas chassis.

I don't think they do.  NScaler711 was referring to the LS 5 Micro DCC Kato USA board which is an okay fit for the FVM chassis used in the ES44.  The FVM chassis used in the SD70Ace is similar so there was some question if the same decoder would work.  The answer is - not so much.

I just checked and the SD70Ace chassis is different enough to make the  fit more difficult.  The rear two power lugs are farther back on the chassis than on the ES44.  Far enough to be right where the end of the decoder is.  You could cut/grind off the lugs but then you only have the front two providing power and holding down the decoder to the chassis.

Here are the FVM ES44 (top) and SD70Ace (bottom)


and here is the LS 5 Micro Kato USA board on top of the FVM SD70Ace chassis.  You can see the rear lugs are in just the wrong spot. and I don't see where the decoder can be positioned to hit the lugs and not have one set in the wrong spot.



With the new 73100 outline board announced, I wonder if they wouldn't be a better fit for the FVM SD70Ace chassis.  I don't have any left to test.  That assumes the new board is identical to the 73100.  That's not necessarily a given. 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 04:35:47 AM by reinhardtjh »
John H. Reinhardt
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peteski

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Re: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2022, 02:42:42 AM »
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Thanks John.
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nscaler711

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Re: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2022, 10:22:27 AM »
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@reinhardtjh Thanks for the information, I didn't have any ES44s to compare to the few ACes I have, and I forgot I have one Kato board in an Athearn so I could have checked myself. (It's been one of those weeks) hopefully the 73100 will fit.
“If you have anything you wanna say, you better spit it out while you can. Because you’re all going to die sooner or later." - Zero Two

GM50 4164

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Re: ESU 58741 (LS 5 Kato board) into FVM ES44AC install
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2022, 10:16:23 PM »
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Here is a Fox Valley SD70ACe with the Kato board in it. Yes, I removed the rear frame contact points but after taping the board down anyways it wasn't going to go anywhere. I insulated the motor contacts under the board and flattened them somewhat before soldering the wires to them. The main issue is in the thinner section of the engine shell where it tapers inward some. You will need to thin this area inside to allow the shell to sit down properly.


Benjamin H