Author Topic: Sound notching with ESU  (Read 466 times)

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GM50 4164

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Sound notching with ESU
« on: November 25, 2021, 10:11:17 PM »
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I'm not sure the title is clear but I'll attempt to explain it here.

I'm trying to figure out how to get the motor to rev up sooner using a direct select 73100 board or any ESU decoder for that matter. As the project comes from ESU, after the engine start up it just idles away, all the way up to a throttle setting of 7 on my Digitrax throttle. Revs up again at throttle 13, 23, 32.... Is there a way to have it throttle sooner, like starting at 3, 9, 15, 21 and so forth? Like, can I get it to at least rev up once before it starts to move?


Benjamin H

tehachapifan

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2021, 11:06:11 PM »
+1
What speed step setting are you running at (14, 28 or 128)? Sounds like maybe it's set to 128 speed steps. I run at 28 speed streps and get notching steps at speed steps 1 (depending on file), 3,5,7,10,12, 14 and 16.

Aside from this, I'm not aware of another way to alter these steps. Well, aside from playing around with the speed curve settings. But I don't think that would result in notch steps occurring at an earlier speed step on your controller.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 11:11:08 PM by tehachapifan »

squirrelhunter

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2021, 11:12:52 PM »
+1
The way I got around this was set momentum to max and to use a ProtoThrottle.

Basically the engine takes longer to start moving and I don't release the brake on the PT until Notch 2.

Not a perfect or cheap solution, but I think it addresses the issue raised by the OP.

jagged ben

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2021, 11:37:10 PM »
+1
The ESU 'Drive Hold' feature is intended to give you more realistic sound. 
As discussed in these threads:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=44836.0
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=44351.0

GM50 4164

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2021, 11:38:20 PM »
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What speed step setting are you running at (14, 28 or 128)? Sounds like maybe it's set to 128 speed steps. I run at 28 speed streps and get notching steps at speed steps 1 (depending on file), 3,5,7,10,12, 14 and 16.

Aside from this, I'm not aware of another way to alter these steps. Well, aside from playing around with the speed curve settings. But I don't think that would result in notch steps occurring at an earlier speed step on your controller.
Yes, it is the way it comes from ESU which as I understand it is 128 speed steps. How do I go about changing it to 28 speed steps using the Lokprogrammer?


Benjamin H

GM50 4164

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2021, 11:41:19 PM »
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The ESU 'Drive Hold' feature is intended to give you more realistic sound. 
As discussed in these threads:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=44836.0
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=44351.0
I do use DH on some of my stuff some of the times. My friend, whom I am working on the locomotive for, doesn't like DH. He doesn't want to have to do things extra but run the trains. That is why I was trying to get it to rev up before moving or closer to it than the stock ESU sound project comes by default.


Benjamin H

tehachapifan

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2021, 01:38:39 AM »
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Yes, it is the way it comes from ESU which as I understand it is 128 speed steps. How do I go about changing it to 28 speed steps using the Lokprogrammer?

Generally, you select if you want 14, 28 or 128 speed steps using your DCC controller. At least that's what I do using my MRC Prodigy Express system and controller. In addition to this, in the LokProgrammer on the "DCC Settings" page/tab, you can select "detect speed step mode automatically" or "use 14 speed steps" or "use 28 or 128 speed steps". I always select "use 28 or 128 speed steps", as I recall there being some issues with the automatic detection selection in the past that I don't know if were ever resolved. All this said, there may still be CV setting(s) that you can adjust to get notch increases where you want them, but I'm not aware of any at this point.


jagged ben

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2021, 10:17:05 AM »
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There's also a CV that does just this on ESU decoders.  It's called Delay Start for Drive Sound or something like that.  A little googling leads me to CV124. 

ednadolski

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2021, 11:15:33 AM »
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tehachapifan

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2021, 12:50:30 PM »
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Guys, I don't think the OP was talking about the delayed start feature, but rather how soon thru the speed steps does the prime mover notch up. If he doesn't get the first notch up until speed step 7, the delayed start feature isn't going to do the trick. Nor is it going to help with the long distance between subsequent notch ups.


jagged ben

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2021, 06:42:52 PM »
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I suppose it depends if he just wants to get more realistic sound and is open to multiple options to get there, or if he really just wants what you say.  Like, why does he think he wants what he wants (or why does he think his friend wants that).    He did say "Like, can I get it to at least rev up once before it starts to move?"  Other than the initial notch i don't really see the point of changing the speed steps to the sound notches and I would never use 28 speed steps.

Personally I like to increase the acceleration value rather than using the delay start or drive hold feature.  Then I can spin the throttle up and the sound starts going before the engine really picks up any speed.  Meanwhile I can strive to match non-ESU decoders to the acceleration.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 06:47:23 PM by jagged ben »

tehachapifan

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2021, 07:14:19 PM »
+1
I actually do use the 28 speed step setting as a standard (lol!). But, I tend to hardly ever use the throttle dial on the controller and instead prefer to hit the +/- buttons. Using the +/- buttons, I feel I have more precise control over what speed step I'm going to and don't even need to look at the controller screen as often as I would with the dial. Also, when using the +/- buttons, 128 speed steps would be excessive to me and unnecessary. I feel I get a smooth enough transition between speed steps at the 28 speed step setting, especially after I've got all my other settings adjusted just right (speed curve, etc.).


peteski

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2021, 01:39:29 AM »
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Yes, it is the way it comes from ESU which as I understand it is 128 speed steps. How do I go about changing it to 28 speed steps using the Lokprogrammer?

There is nothing in the decoder that selects 28/128 steps. That setting is done on your throttle/command station.  The only speed step setting within the decoder (in CV29) is whether you want your decoder operate in 14 or 28/128 step mode.
. . . 42 . . .

jdcolombo

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2021, 12:05:30 PM »
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To the OP:

No one has offered you the option of using manual notching.  If you want, you can set up two function keys, one to notch up and the other to notch down, and use manual notching rather than relying on the throttle setting to control notching.  But beware: to use this function efficiently, you really need a throttle that you can change the latching behavior on the function key buttons.  The reason for this is that if you use manual notching and press the key for "notch up" it will stay in notch up mode until you either press the key again (turning that function off) or you hit Run 8.  Same for notch down.  You generally can control the latching behavior of function keys on WiFi throttles, like Engine Driver (for Android phones/tablets) or Wi-Throttle (Apple devices), or the TCS WiFi throttle. 

There is, in fact, a way to change notching behavior in the sound file itself if you are using LokSound 5 or LokSound 4 decoders (you CANNOT do this with a LokSound Select), but it requires that you use the sound editing functions of the LokProgrammer software and know what you're doing.  This is not a route for the novice to take, but it is possible if you are experienced with the sound editing functions of the LokProgrammer software AND are using a LokSound 4 or 5 decoder.

Other than these options, your best bet would be to use Drive Hold.  Prior responses have sent you to threads on Drive Hold, but as a brief explanation, what Drive Hold does is divorce the sound file functions from the throttle position until you turn DH off.  So when you are accelerating from stop, what you do is set DH, turn the throttle to, say, 10 (out of 128) to activate the initial notch, then turn DH off, and the engine will accelerate to speed step 10.  Drive Hold works best with LOTS of momentum programmed into the decoder - like setting the momentum level at 80-100, rather than 5 or 15 like many people do. 

Having said all this, I will say that none of my operators use any of this stuff.  There are zillions of things you can do with an ESU LokSound to mimic more prototypical operation, but all of these things require more complex interaction with your throttle than just turning the knob or pressing the up/down buttons.  I have enough trouble getting my operators to blow the horn and turn on the bell at grade crossings.  No one is interested in learning more complex operations when they are concentrating on switching moves or moving trains.  All this stuff is great for doing a YouTube video to show off how prototypically you can operate a train.  For operators at an actual operating session . . . not so much.

John C.

Bill H

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Re: Sound notching with ESU
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2021, 01:47:11 PM »
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To the OP:

Having said all this, I will say that none of my operators use any of this stuff.  There are zillions of things you can do with an ESU LokSound to mimic more prototypical operation, but all of these things require more complex interaction with your throttle than just turning the knob or pressing the up/down buttons.  I have enough trouble getting my operators to blow the horn and turn on the bell at grade crossings.  No one is interested in learning more complex operations when they are concentrating on switching moves or moving trains.  All this stuff is great for doing a YouTube video to show off how prototypically you can operate a train.  For operators at an actual operating session . . . not so much.

John C.
I have to agree with John. I operated on a very mature layout two weeks ago where every single loco was sound equipped. Perhaps at most 20% of the operators used either the bell or the whistle at any point while on the road - let alone Drive Hold. Most are immersed in their operational work and seem to forget some of the interesting aspects of having sound in the loco, those same aspects that a single operator enjoying his layout might have used to add just a bit more realism to their run.

Kind regards,
Bill