JMR-NCE ROBLEMS

[woodone]

I have been struggling with getting JMRI to work with my new computer.
What I have learned is that I am having problems with cables and connection ports.
To be exact the sockets used on the NCE panels.
Was wondering if someone might have updated the sockets on the boards?

[Mike C]

   One of these should work https://www.amazon.com/RJ45%EF%BC%8CUSB-Extender-Extension-Connector-Adapter/dp/B087NC8ZL6 
 But you will need a Cat 5 or 6 cable with 2 male ends .......Mike

 I don't think the sockets on the NCE board have changed .

[peteski]

Jerry, are you talking about the RJ45 (6-conductor modular telephone jack type) connectors on the NCE fascia boards? 

If yes, then no, there have not been any modifications done. Those are reliable connectors used in millions of devices.  What specifically is the problem with the jacks on the NCE fascia board?  They are just plastic housings with gold plated springy wires which contact gold plates metal plates on the RJ45 plugs.

Do you have a problem with the jacks (on the NCE board) or with the plugs (at the ends of the 6-conductor cables)?

[woodone]

Well after stumbling around this problem I have found the problem.
With some help from the JMRI users group.
The computer ports were not supplying the 5 volts to the USB cable.
Seems like the computer running Windows 10 thought it would save some power and turned them off.  NICE !
I thought when I was looking at the devise manager and was plugging the USB cable into the port seeing it would come & go I had a good connection.
It was not.
I had to go the the devise manager and find load management and reset so it would not turn the voltage off to save the battery.
The battery which the PC does not have.
Guess Windows 10 is geared for lap tops?

[Maletrain]

Well after stumbling around this problem I have found the problem.
With some help from the JMRI users group.
The computer ports were not supplying the 5 volts to the USB cable.
Seems like the computer running Windows 10 thought it would save some power and turned them off.  NICE !
I thought when I was looking at the devise manager and was plugging the USB cable into the port seeing it would come & go I had a good connection.
It was not.
I had to go the the devise manager and find load management and reset so it would not turn the voltage off to save the battery.
The battery which the PC does not have.


Guess Windows 10 is geared for lap tops?

Jerry, I have been following this and other JMRI-to-NCE-via-USB threads because I am eventually going to try to do the same thing.  But, I am not seeing any way to get into anything like those COM settings when I try in Windows 10.  Going to "settings" and "devices" and "USB" gives me practically nothing of any use.  Can you tell me how to get to where you are changing the time-out parameters for COM ports?

[Sumner]

..Going to "settings" and "devices" and "USB" gives me practically nothing of any use...

Go to 'settings' then in the search window on that screen insert 'Device Manage'.  On the next screen that should come up go down to 'Ports (COM & LPT).  You should see your com ports that are being used.  Click on the one you want and go to 'Port Settings' to change say the baud rate.

I'm not sure where to go if you aren't getting power at the port?  Maybe to the computers 'Power Settings'?  Never ran into that problem.

Sumner

[Maletrain]

Tried that, and did not get a list with "Ports".  Nothing I do with clicking on options in pop-up windows or searching ever seems to get me "Ports" or "COM". All I seem to be able to get is "USB", and that does not get me to the COM port parameters.  Searching on "Ports" gives "No results" and searching on "COM" gives me a lot of stuff that assumes I meant "Computer", but still nothing on COM ports.

This is what I hate about Windows -  the interface is always changing, and when I want to do something that I have done in the past, I can't find a way to do it.  So, I am left wondering if the ability to do it has now been denied, hidden on purpose, deleted, or just plain lost in the interface.

Anyway, unless somebody has a step by step process for me to try in Windows 10, let's just forget my request.

Edit:  OK, I id find a way into Device Manager that let me into "Universal Serial Bus Controllers" that let me get into "USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller" that has a "Power Management" tab that lets me let (or not let) the computer turn off ALL ports to save power.  Stupidly, it doesn't seem to have any relationship to whether the laptop is being charged or running on its internal battery.  Still not ever seeing anything that says "ports" or "COM", though.  However, under "USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller" there are a list of devices that show port and hub numbers, so I think I have what I need. 

In my case, the key is to start with a right click on the "Windows" icon on the extreme left of the bottom tool bar, and then I will see "Device manager" and can click on that.  Other ways into managing devices seem to be limited to far less options.

[woodone]

Sorry I did not give a step by step on this.
Go to your devise manager - look for Universal Serial Bus controllers. Then the USB Root Hub.
Look in properties - Then power management   Uncheck the box where it says allow computer to turn off this device to save power. Click OK And exit out.
I did a restart, not sure that is necessary, but after that my JMRI worked.
Let me say, it took a bunch of stumbling around and some help from the JMRI User Group before I got this fixed.

[Maletrain]

Jerry, Thanks for the effort.  I was finding that and typing the edit while you posted (see above).  So, I did eventually end up where you did, and can do what you did. 

Thanks for giving us all a heads-up on a "stupid Windows trick" that can kill our JMRI efforts.

[nickelplate759]

Well after stumbling around this problem I have found the problem.
With some help from the JMRI users group.
The computer ports were not supplying the 5 volts to the USB cable.
Seems like the computer running Windows 10 thought it would save some power and turned them off.  NICE !
I thought when I was looking at the devise manager and was plugging the USB cable into the port seeing it would come & go I had a good connection.
It was not.
I had to go the the devise manager and find load management and reset so it would not turn the voltage off to save the battery.
The battery which the PC does not have.
Guess Windows 10 is geared for lap tops?

It's not just to save the battery that you do not have.  It's part of overall power management, which, if done right, is a good thing.

Clearly in this case it wasn't being done right.

[peteski]

Wow!  I had no idea that the 5V power on the USB jacks on a laptop could be turned off, but on laptops that makes sense. That 5V power is used for USB devices attached to the USB jack which require power (they do not have their own power supplies).  Devices such as mice and keyboards, and even DVD and floppy drives among them. Those devices depend on the USB connection for both power and communication.

 But then there are many devices which do not require the 5V power from the USB jack, as they have their own power supplies.  Devices such as flatbed scanners or printers have their own source of power (they plug into the 120V AC power outlet) and they only use USB connection for communications.

Looking at the NCE USB adapter I see that it does not have its own power supply (wall-wart), so it makes sense that it depends on the power supplied through the USB port.   It took some serious troubleshooting, but now things are clear (at least to me).

Also, USB and RS232 (aka. COM port), except for both being serial communication protocols, have nothing in common.  But to confuse things, there are USB to RS232 adapters available.  But those do not convert RS232 (serial COM port) communication to USB.  The adapter passes the RS232 serial data through the USB interface, then feeds it to a virtual COM port driver in Windows. In turn  programs in Windows see that data as if it was coming from a standard COM port (the USB part of the chain is invisible).

This might seem convoluted but it works well.  The NCE LokProgrammer is one such device.  It's native way of communication is a 9-pin (DB9) interface.  If you older computer has a hardware RS232 9-pin port (COM port) then LokProgrammer hardware can be hooked up directly to it.  But since most computers no longer have the hardware RS232 port (only USB), then the USB to RS232 (COM) adapter has to be used between the LokProgrammer hardware and the computer.  But in the end the LokProgrammer software still sees the connection on a COM port (even though it is really a virtual, not a hardware port).

[woodone]

All I know is my back side is black & blue with this glitch.
Very frustrating, I can not count the hours of hunting for this problem.
Not understanding just how computer work did not help.
I do not think I will be going to school to learn more about them.
Too old to teach this old dog new tricks.

[John]

All I know is my back side is black & blue with this glitch.
Very frustrating, I can not count the hours of hunting for this problem.
Not understanding just how computer work did not help.
I do not think I will be going to school to learn more about them.
Too old to teach this old dog new tricks.

The lesson here is never use windows10 for anything you don't want to change .. for absolute mission critical systems like programming trains, I don't use windows anymore

[peteski]

All I know is my back side is black & blue with this glitch.
Very frustrating, I can not count the hours of hunting for this problem.
Not understanding just how computer work did not help.
I do not think I will be going to school to learn more about them.
Too old to teach this old dog new tricks.

Yes, that sucks, but on the positive note, with the help of others, the problem is resolved.