Author Topic: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question  (Read 1428 times)

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Mike C

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Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« on: August 25, 2021, 06:13:46 PM »
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 Hey guys , I have a question about Soundtraxx steam 2 Tsunami decoders .  The loco is an N W S L FED HOn3 4-4-0 . Jerry aka @woodone did a fantastic install in the very limited space that wasn't taken up by extra lead . IT runs great and does what it is supposed to except I can't seem to get the sound to decrease or increase when it drifts down hill or when it goes up a 4%  grade . I am wondering if the fact that it is a can motor combined with a 4 to 1 gearbox is the reason why ? I have tried a few adjustments in the DDE CV's and it really doesn't make any difference . what am I missing ? ....Mike

NDave

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2021, 11:28:18 AM »
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Did you go thru the autocalibration described on p52 of the manual? If not, start there. That will set Cvs 2.503 and 2.504 based on your locos motor and gears.

Are you testing the loco alone, or is it pulling a train? If the gear ratio is really low, perhaps the motor is never really "feeling" the load. What about the DDE sound setting CVs (2.505 - 2.508) (rod clank min and max; exhaust min and max).

What is CV 2.512 (DDE load sensitivity) set at? IIRC, default is 32, but my N scale locos are set around 125-175.

Mike C

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2021, 06:17:05 PM »
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 No I haven't tried the auto calc , Totally forgot about that . I usually have pretty good luck just going with what works in other locos .

I was using a train of 2 pass cars . When it starts moving it feels the load and the exaust is loud and tapers off as the train speeds up . The rod clank and exaust min / max are set at 255 as recommended by Mick Moinguard in his Tsunami 1 Getting the Best from
Soundtraxx's Steam Tsunami manual . Yea I know that the TS 1 and TS 2 are different , but a lot of it can transfer to the TS 2 decoder .

As for load sensitivity , I have raised it higher I have it at 85 and the throtle sen. at 34 . I was going to experiment with setting them higher .

I'll try out the auto calibrate latter tonight and see what happens ..Mike

NDave

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2021, 06:47:17 PM »
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Two passenger cars probably isn't much of a load, depending on the motor type (if the motor/gear box provide a lot of torque). Another test would be to hold the loco while running, causing the wheels to slip... can you hear a change in the exhaust sounds as the wheels start to slip? Then, gently add a little more pressure to the loco with slipping wheels, loading the motor a bit more... can you hear a change? (Don't hold it for long... particularly is it has traction tires)

The change as the loco accelerates (I assume under control of the acceleration settings in CV3) from a stop is not be due to load, but rather the difference between the throttle setting and actual speed (measured by the B-EMF), adjusted by the throttle sensitivity setting in the B-EMF controls (CV 2.511). As the loco accelerates and this difference decreases, the loco exhaust sound will be adjusted by the decoder as you observed...

Another thing that I do, tho' it probably doesn't affect the sound, is set the B-EMF feedback cutout (CV10) to the approximate top speed step I run a particular loco at. IE: I run my 4-6-0s at a top speed step of 50-60 (with my speed table, this corresponds to 25-30 smph, unloaded on level ground) and CV10 is set to 50. Doing this gradually decreases the B-EMF feedback as the loco accelerates, and B-EMF reaches about 0 as the loco hits full road speed. When set this way, the loco will slow down on hills (unless you advance the throttle) and speed up on the down hill (unless you brake).

Mike C

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2021, 06:56:37 PM »
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 2 cars is about all it can pull up my 4% grades , and that took a LOT of lead weight .  I'll look at cv 10 it's at 127 right now . Thanks , I have something to do tonight  :D

Mike C

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2021, 12:32:34 AM »
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   well trying to adjust the DDE automatically was a bust , no difference . explored cv 10 and no difference . I assume that you know that I am using a gearhead motor . I can live with this but I was hoping for a better solution . @ peteski and Max .
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 12:37:37 AM by Mike C »

peteski

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2021, 03:04:39 AM »
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I have very little experience with configuration of Tsunami decoders.  It is quite possible that the gearhead motor is the "problem".

The gearhead multiples the motor's torque (at the expense of the RPMs), so even under heavy heavy load at the wheels, the motor only sees very light load (it is not straining, the current draw is light, and the RPMs stay almost unaffected). In a normal loco under load the motor would slow down and the current would increase.

While I do not know exactly how Tsunami decoders control the volume of the chuffs (or other effects) I suspect it is based on the current draw of the motors vs. its RPMs.  The gearhead motor in your loco consumes relatively little current regardless of whether the loco is climbing a hill, or coasting down hill.  Maybe that is why the decoder does not work the way you expect it to.   If the decoder also adjusts the chuff volume depending on the throttles speed step vs. the locos actual speed step (when momentum is enabled in CV3 and CV4), then you might at least be able to get the changing chuff volume effect (heavy and light chuffs) that way.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 12:16:49 PM by peteski »
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NDave

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2021, 10:30:00 AM »
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I also think it likely that the gearhead motor is the issue... as Peteski said, the motor is not "seeing" any significant load. Try adjusting the load sensitivity (CV 2.512) to its highest setting...

You do have the ability to manually simulate drifting using the cutoff+ and cutoff- features (default set to F5 and F6, respectively; see p6 and 7 of the user guide). The first 3 times you activate F5 (note this is turning F5  "on," which means you have to turn it off again, so I use two quick pushes, on/off for each "step" of the cutoff),  the timbre of the exhaust changes, and the 4th time it shuts the exhaust down completely and the rod clank volume increases (depending on your CV settings)... the loco is "drifting." You reverse the procedure with F6...

What the above won't do is automatically increase the volume of the exhaust chuffs as the loco struggles upgrade. Thinking about this... there MIGHT be a manual work around. The Tsunami 2 has an alternative mixer in which you can set a whole different set of sound volumes (I think the default is lower volumes for use in a club setting; see p 39 and 40). I haven't tried this, but perhaps you could set the chuff volume in the alt mixer to a higher volume (and all other volumes the same as the primary), and then map the alt mixer to a specific and accessible function key on your controller. That way, you could manually increase the chuff volume (turn on the alt mixer) on the uphill grade... decrease (turn off the alt mixer) it and use cutoff+ (F5) to go to drift mode on the downhill grades.

That's about all I can offer right now... All 5 of my steam locos now have Tsunami 2 steam 2 decoders. Overall, I really like the decoders motor and sound control. Just wish it had a user-quillable whistle!

Good luck (and let us know if the alt mixer idea works)!

Mike C

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2021, 05:53:46 PM »
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   I did the "tuning" with JMRI , I think I will try it again using my PowerCab , Just to have covered all the bases . I did adjust the load sensitivity upwards , I'll also try it all the way up . Manually triggering F 5/6 isn't real practical as this is a 4x8 ish layout . But it could be done an occasionally .  I kind of figured  that the gearhead was the problem but there is no way I'm going to switch it out , it runs too good ...........Mike

greenwizard88

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2021, 11:09:09 PM »
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   I did the "tuning" with JMRI , I think I will try it again using my PowerCab , Just to have covered all the bases . I did adjust the load sensitivity upwards , I'll also try it all the way up . Manually triggering F 5/6 isn't real practical as this is a 4x8 ish layout . But it could be done an occasionally .  I kind of figured  that the gearhead was the problem but there is no way I'm going to switch it out , it runs too good ...........Mike
Definitely try with a PowerCab. I've had numerous times where using JMRI to program a LokSound decoder just... didn't, despite JMRI thinking everything worked, and I had to enter CVs manually.

peteski

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2021, 01:05:39 AM »
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Definitely try with a PowerCab. I've had numerous times where using JMRI to program a LokSound decoder just... didn't, despite JMRI thinking everything worked, and I had to enter CVs manually.

The discussion is about a Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 decoder.
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Mike C

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2021, 06:45:58 PM »
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The discussion is about a Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 decoder.


Yes but in my last post i said I would try my Powercab instead of JMRI to try to cover all bases .  Maybe tonight , last night I had a few to many adult baverges .

peteski

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2021, 11:31:13 PM »
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Yes but in my last post i said I would try my Powercab instead of JMRI to try to cover all bases .  Maybe tonight , last night I had a few to many adult baverges .

Quote
That will set Cvs 2.503 and 2.504 based on your locos motor and gears.

Looks like this decoder uses indexed CVs. JMRI takes care of setting the indexes properly. Make sure you know what you doing when doing this manually through Power Cab.
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woodone

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2021, 10:27:51 AM »
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Mike.
Have you looked at page 52 of the user guide for the Tsunami 2 manual. Has to do with load settings.
Jerry AKA woodone

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Mike C

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Re: Tsunami 2 Steam 2 question
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2021, 06:00:15 PM »
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   @peteski  Yes I'm familar with the indexed CV's  And yes Jerry , that's the page I'm working off of ..........Mike