Author Topic: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video  (Read 6925 times)

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Aleuck

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2021, 10:51:37 PM »
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Looking at the original board from my Kato n scale FEF and the original from my sd40-2 mid it appears that the 58741 can work in the FEF. Has anyone done this install?

milw156

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2021, 07:33:30 PM »
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there apparently are solder pads for adding capacitors, can some one tell me which side of the cap/choke gets soldered to which pad??? this part of it befuddles me :-(

nightmare0331

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2021, 09:19:35 AM »
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Looking at the original board from my Kato n scale FEF and the original from my sd40-2 mid it appears that the 58741 can work in the FEF. Has anyone done this install?

The FEF3 has been done by myself and a couple of others so far.


Hope this helps!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

peteski

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2021, 08:55:54 PM »
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That sure makes a sound install easier Kelley!
Did you ever figure out the motor control CV values to get the loco with that coreless motor to crawl, and to smoothly run at all speeds?  You gave me the ESU V4 sound file for my FEF back when I had problems getting the LokSound V4 to smoothly control the motor, but it is still not what I would consider smooth.  ESU are wonderful decoders, but they have heck of a time controlling that coreless motor.
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Cajonpassfan

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2022, 03:01:50 PM »
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I just pulled the trigger on the new release FEF-3 Kato Greyhound in DC. I'll need to convert it to DCC Sound, preferably ESU, but I'm still a bit concerned about the slow speed cordless motor control issues others have mentioned. Have there been any other developments? Is A TSU 2 a better choice for motor control?
Advice appreciated, the engine should be in the mail...
Otto

tehachapifan

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2022, 03:31:42 PM »
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My LL N SW1200 I re-motored with a Bachmann N S4 motor (which I think is coreless) has excellent slow speed control with an ESU 73800 board installed. Is this not the same general type of motor as the Kato one?




peteski

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2022, 04:08:46 PM »
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My LL N SW1200 I re-motored with a Bachmann N S4 motor (which I think is coreless) has excellent slow speed control with an ESU 73800 board installed. Is this not the same general type of motor as the Kato one?

Yes, but while the technology is the same, the internals could differ.  Kato coreless motor is very powerful (oodles of torque), so it likely has different winding's resistance, inductance and the amount if BEMF it generates.  If someone does figure out the ESU motor control parameters which will get the Kato motor to run the FEF3 smoothly at all speeds, and also have very good slow speed control, I hope the post the info here.
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tehachapifan

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2022, 04:31:27 PM »
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Yes, but while the technology is the same, the internals could differ.  Kato coreless motor is very powerful (oodles of torque), so it likely has different winding's resistance, inductance and the amount if BEMF it generates.  If someone does figure out the ESU motor control parameters which will get the Kato motor to run the FEF3 smoothly at all speeds, and also have very good slow speed control, I hope the post the info here.

It's been a while since I set up the motor controls on my re-motored SW1200, but I think I remember seeing recommended coreless motor CV settings in at least the older manual for the 73800 board.


peteski

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2022, 04:35:54 PM »
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It's been a while since I set up the motor controls on my re-motored SW1200, but I think I remember seeing recommended coreless motor CV settings in at least the older manual for the 73800 board.

It's been a while now, but after auto-tune produced piss-poor results (tried multiple times), we tried those settings (and few others from the manual). I even got a hold of the sound file Kato used for the Kobo installs - better but still nowhere as good as I would expect from ESU decoder.  It is not the mechanism either.  The slow speed is nowhere as slow as I would want it, and the loco lurches in higher speed.  That was few years ago (it was a friend's loco) so I might not remember things exactly as they were, but neither of us was happy with that install.
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tehachapifan

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2022, 04:42:03 PM »
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Yeah, I've never been impressed with their auto-tune feature in any loco I've tried it in. Most of my locos ran way more erratically afterwards and ran way better with just the default motor CV settings. Plus, I don't like the loco taking off like a rocket from a dead stop during the auto-tune. Talk about a good way to crack that flywheel doughnut!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 04:44:17 PM by tehachapifan »

Cajonpassfan

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2022, 05:01:08 PM »
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Well, this isn't very encouraging. Anyone try a Tsunami 2?
Otto

tehachapifan

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2022, 05:11:51 PM »
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Well, this isn't very encouraging. Anyone try a Tsunami 2?
Otto

I'm just now finding this out too and am curious if this applied to the Kato GS4 as well, especially since I have both the GS4 and the ESU drop-in board ordered and on the way. My experience with ESU boards is that they normally have excellent motor control in all my diesel installs, but this will be my first steam install...presumably with the same coreless motor as the FEF but I'm not sure.

peteski

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2022, 05:29:56 PM »
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I'm just now finding this out too and am curious if this applied to the Kato GS4 as well, especially since I have both the GS4 and the ESU drop-in board ordered and on the way. My experience with ESU boards is that they normally have excellent motor control in all my diesel installs, but this will be my first steam install...presumably with the same coreless motor as the FEF but I'm not sure.

GS4 does not use a coreless motor, but a standard 3-pole motor (same as Kato NW2).
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tehachapifan

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2022, 05:38:21 PM »
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GS4 does not use a coreless motor, but a standard 3-pole motor (same as Kato NW2).

Ok, thanks!

NDave

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Re: New ESU 58741 V5 'Kato USA' board video
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2022, 07:15:52 PM »
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Well, this isn't very encouraging. Anyone try a Tsunami 2?
Otto
I also had issues with the motor control of my 2017 edition FEF-3 with its "factory" ESU Loksound decoder, so I replaced it with a Tsunami 2 Steam 2 decoder. I am very happy with its performance at all speeds, now (from 0-50 smph on my small layout).