CGW NE5 red and black scheme running board paint?

[wcfn100]

First of all, this poll has not been sanctioned by Atlas or anyone associated with them.  I was going to drop Atlas an E-mail about which NE-5 cabooses received the R/B scheme in hopes that will make a future production run.  The road numbers will be 602, 613, 615, 620, 621 and 622.  These units all had 13 reflective dots along the sill.  Nos. 605 and 609 also wore red and black but had 7 reflective dots which were smaller.  I wasn't going to include those at this time.  If you know of other road numbers, please let me know.

One inconsistency is the running board paint.  Some look like they are red. Some black.  Then there are others that are definitely black with red on the part that overhangs the ends.  There's also some that look like they are still maroon from the previous paint scheme, but I don't think that should be an option.

I know there aren't too many CGW guys here but I wanted your input to send along to Atlas.  You can change your vote if any new info changes your mind.

Thx.

Jason

[cgw]

I do believe they were red but it got really. dirty hence black.   I remember the goofy arguments on the gp30 cab roofs.    which part was red vs black.      it got dirty and it was not cleaned hence it looked black.       same goes for the caboose.           NYC modelers have the same arguments on the roof color on a lot of the Budd and pullman roofs.  it appeared black but if you studied the photos you realize they only cleaned the sides of the cars and the roofs got dirty and black.

[wcfn100]

I do believe they were red but it got really. dirty hence black.

I personally believe that to be the most common scenario and would also be my preference.  I also believe that was the case for the maroon cars but Atlas did them in black.  That's why I want to say something this time.

Jason

[Sokramiketes]

I still have a hard time imagining them painting the running board red, and then the roof black.  There's plenty of evidence for the ends of roofwalks being sprayed while the ends of the car/caboose were sprayed, so I can understand why it might appear that way from the ground... but there's still no way they were up on the roof wasting red paint.

Happy to be proved wrong also, and seem to remember a prior thread with some photo evidence...

[wcfn100]

I still have a hard time imagining them painting the running board red, and then the roof black.  There's plenty of evidence for the ends of roofwalks being sprayed while the ends of the car/caboose were sprayed, so I can understand why it might appear that way from the ground... but there's still no way they were up on the roof wasting red paint.

Happy to be proved wrong also, and seem to remember a prior thread with some photo evidence...

Proof?  Ha!  If I had proof I wouldn't have to ask.   

I know we did a thread at one point but doesn't hurt to see if there's any new information out there.

Since what you wrote would equally apply to the maroon scheme, I've cropped a couple of those to post here as well the red.


This first one at least shows that the running board was painted red at some point in it's life.

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This one the RB doesn't seem to have any black showing at either end of the caboose.

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On this maroon car you could say that the RB starts to turn black a few feet into the car but that's pretty far for overspray.  Plus you can see the backside of the platform at the far end isn't black and that part would not get any overspray.

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Here's a good one showing the RB end and platform.  There's nothing there to indicate any black was used.

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Again, I don't have an answer, only speculation.  If you remember what the evidence was, I could use the reminder because I don't think it was anything I have.

Jason

[Sokramiketes]

In the first photo, how are you determining red paint versus no paint and rusty, on the running board edges?

[Sokramiketes]

The recent Tangent boxcar highlights a typical spray pattern.  Remember that real railroad equipment is big!  By the 1960s, I feel like railroads were saving money and effort, and would not have wasted red paint, masking, and effort to spray the running board separate from the roof.  But, the Tangent model shows what you might see from the ground level, with the black end overspray.

[wcfn100]

The recent Tangent boxcar highlights a typical spray pattern.

I'm familiar with overspray on an unpainted roof and/or running board.  Do you know of an example of overspray when all surfaces are painted?  And why just the ends?

In yout NP example, you can easily see that the overspray doesn't cover the entire running board platform.  You can still see it's mostly unpainted.

One question with this overspray idea.  Do you think that the top of the roof at the end has a faded red pattern that extends a couple feet onto the car?

Jason

[Mark5]

The recent Tangent boxcar highlights a typical spray pattern.  <snip> But, the Tangent model shows what you might see from the ground level, with the black end overspray.

Off topic, but I haven't been able to find (yet) any proto pix of this series with that kind of overspray.

NP # 3037 in 1976: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1887717

[Sokramiketes]

Off topic, but I haven't been able to find (yet) any proto pix of this series with that kind of overspray.

NP # 3037 in 1976: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1887717

The photo from Tangent shows overspray, albeit only from the ground.  By 1976 I can imagine the overspray was washed/baked/worn off the galvanized roof.  Heck, even a fully painted roof might have been back to galvanizing in that many years.

[Sokramiketes]

I'm familiar with overspray on an unpainted roof and/or running board.  Do you know of an example of overspray when all surfaces are painted?  And why just the ends?

CGW 1937 AAR boxcars?  I mean the roof was black but the running board was unpainted, so maybe that's not quite the example you're looking for.  But the black roof was painted after the car (or caboose) sides, so there is overspray under the black but not on the black.  You can see the red under the black on the first photo, which I can imagine is the overspray area.

In yout NP example, you can easily see that the overspray doesn't cover the entire running board platform.  You can still see it's mostly unpainted.

One question with this overspray idea.  Do you think that the top of the roof at the end has a faded red pattern that extends a couple feet onto the car?

Jason

I guess my thinking on the painting process is that the running board is hard to mask, so maybe it never got masked off.

And do we know the black was sprayed, or was it car cement and mopped on the roof?

[wcfn100]

And do we know the black was sprayed, or was it car cement and mopped on the roof?

I believe it was car cement.

I put a couple post on the two FB groups.  Maybe someone out there has the smoking gun photo.

Jason

[Chris333]

I vote for "weathered" 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Think about it this way: which one is easier to change to the other?

For me? I'll always opt for having to paint something black as opposed to matching a different color.

[wcfn100]

No matter how many times I see this picture, I still shake my head.

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So close.

Jason