Author Topic: Scale Trains First gen turbine  (Read 1661 times)

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spookshow

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2021, 05:52:45 AM »
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Are the wheels slipping, or is the engine just stalling?

The wheels slip (very noisily and obviously). It looks like mine can handle a max of 29 50' freight cars before the wheels start slipping. I've been running it around in circles for a couple of days now, which seems like plenty of "break in" time. But I'll let 'er roll some more and see if things improve any.

-Mark

SirTainly

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2021, 09:08:22 AM »
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I have one of these on the way, but went for the DCC ready as I didn't want the sound - anyone got a recommendation for a good decoder without sound?


Also anyone know if ST plans to rerun the Big Blows at some point in the future?

C855B

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2021, 09:24:49 AM »
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I have one of these on the way, but went for the DCC ready as I didn't want the sound - anyone got a recommendation for a good decoder without sound? ...

ScaleTrains does: ESU LokPilot 5 #59629. It is the only decoder at this point that keeps all the special lighting controls, for things like class lights. It's not expensive, I just bought two from Yankee Dabbler for $30 each. They'll be in my mailbox in about an hour.

SirTainly

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2021, 10:00:37 AM »
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Awesome, thanks!

C855B

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2021, 05:52:41 PM »
+1
Fair point.  An alternative to removing them; perhaps just 'string them up'.   Probably some low tac masking tape would work best.  Tape them up against the under body so you know they are not bearing any weight.  Then see how they pull.

This worked. Bottom line, in very round numbers, the center trucks reduce pulling capacity by 20%.

One thing I found interesting is it actually started the full 40-car test train on the 1% with a lot of slip. It wouldn't move before. 35 cars, no problem on 1% until the grade transition. 25 cars up the 2% with slight slip at the sharpest radius. This compares to 30 and 20 with the inner trucks on the rail. 30 would almost make the 2%, but complaining every inch.

robert3985

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2021, 06:21:21 AM »
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Yesterday I received the new Scale Train first generation turbine with tender and sound. This isn't a review other then it looks very nice and crisp. I thought it was a tad light and will not pull 40 empty hoppers up my 1.34% grades. I opened her up and found room for a little bit of tungsten rods for weight but this didn't help too much. Frog Snot will do the trick next.  I believe they have the same sound as the big Blow turbines by Scale Trains. Even with the lack of traction I'm still happy to have this running around my layout when I feel Union Pacificy. Other then that it's back to PRR.  For now I have her on the point with a big boy behind just as UP did.

Sorry, but UP didn't often use Big Boys often only as helpers, but every now and then, they'd couple up a Standard Turbine or Veranda Turbine on the point with a Big Boy behind the turbine (due to oxygen requirements of the jet requiring clean air) for the main purpose of motive power redistribution, since more freight trains went west than went east.

Big Boys could easily pull more cars without a helper than the Standard Turbines were capable of.

When Big Boys stopped being headquartered in Ogden and moved to Cheyenne due to UP using only oil-fired steam engines from the west coast to Green River in March of 1954, they were GONE from the Wasatch Grade, being run from Cheyenne to Green River or Cheyenne to Denver, which still had coal available....until their fires were put out permanently in 1959.

So, the Standard Turbines replaced Big Boy, but needed helpers to be able to move the same tonnage over the grade.  This was accomplished mainly by TTT's and both coal-fired Challengers, and 3700 Class oil-fired Challengers until March 1954, when ALL steam engines west of Green River had to be oil-fired.

NORMALLY after March of 1954, on nearly all over-tonnage extra trains going up the 70 mile grade from Ogden to Wahsatch that were pulled by Standard/Veranda Turbines, there was a 3700 Class oil-fired Challenger shoving on the rear,...to be detached from the train at Wahsatch, flinging the trailing CA-1 wooden bodied, steel framed caboose through turnouts aligned so it would couple up with the waiting Turbine-pulled train, while the Challenger outran the coasting caboose, but diverged to the center siding and through spring switches, turning itself at the Wahsatch Wye, and running light back to Ogden, to be quickly serviced, turned and put on the rear of another Standard/Veranda Turbine powered over-tonnage extra waiting at the Riverdale Yard, just east of the Ogden Yard's UP engine facilities, turntable and roundhouse.

I just picked up my turbines this afternoon, and now I've got incentive to get my layout up and bolted together to see if I can actually run one of my 3700 Class Challengers as a helper on the rear of a 30 car Turbine-pulled fright!  It will most likely be interesting at least!

In the meantime, off come the funky, oversized couplers to be replaced by brown MTL True Scale couplers, the little round holes on the early version Turbine that accommodate the etched side intake vent coverings need to be filled and painted, and then, etched wipers, crew and fabricated brass coupler bars on the pilot.

So, even though it may be a few days before I am able to actually run my turbines, they'll keep me busy, and maybe I can find a way to make the unpowered trucks roll much easier.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

gkoproske

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2021, 05:27:38 PM »
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I got my Standard Turbine (the standalone unit) this week and the first thing I did was not take it apart or see how many cars it would pull.  I listened to the sound.  The bell is OK, the horn is multi-chime where there are single trumpets on the roof.  But the worst thing is that the prime mover sounds just like my ScaleTrains Tier 4 GEVO.  I hear reciprocating pistons and no turbine whine at all, and it is just as quiet as the GEVO.  I am really disappointed.  And kinda peeved about the sound out of the GEVO as well.  When you can barely hear them at home, you have no chance whatsoever at a show.  I emailed ST Support and they have not responded yet. 

BTW, I ordered the black water tender and it arrived with the metal truck frame contact strips cockeyed such that the unit did not sit level.  The decoder did not work.  Sent it back.  After a long while, I got it back.  The tender backup light comes on when the tender is just sitting there, but once it moves, the light is intermittent.  No amount of manual pressure rectified the situation.

robert3985

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2021, 06:00:31 PM »
+1
I got my Standard Turbine (the standalone unit) this week and the first thing I did was not take it apart or see how many cars it would pull.  I listened to the sound.  The bell is OK, the horn is multi-chime where there are single trumpets on the roof.  But the worst thing is that the prime mover sounds just like my ScaleTrains Tier 4 GEVO.  I hear reciprocating pistons and no turbine whine at all, and it is just as quiet as the GEVO.  I am really disappointed.  And kinda peeved about the sound out of the GEVO as well.  When you can barely hear them at home, you have no chance whatsoever at a show.  I emailed ST Support and they have not responded yet. 

BTW, I ordered the black water tender and it arrived with the metal truck frame contact strips cockeyed such that the unit did not sit level.  The decoder did not work.  Sent it back.  After a long while, I got it back.  The tender backup light comes on when the tender is just sitting there, but once it moves, the light is intermittent.  No amount of manual pressure rectified the situation.

@gkoproske That's interesting.  I haven't run mine yet (the layout is still not bolted together) but I spent some time at my friend Nate's @Nato running two of his in DC, one of which was sound-equipped...and it sure didn't sound like any piston-driven engine.  Very nice turbine whine and jet roar.  However, prototypically, these moved around the yard using a 240-ish hp diesel engine, saving the jet for pulling the trains.  Maybe there's a mode in the decoder's CV list that generates this diesel sound so it would be correct for being hostled around before coupling up to the waiting train.  THAT would be very cool!

I'll have to read my manual.

Okay...there IS a "hostler mode" in DCC which sounds like a small diesel engine for moving slowly around in the yard. (VERY cool!) This is the default mode when starting up the locomotive, and your speed is also limited.  After you are coupled up to your train, you press F3, which turns off "hostler mode" and starts the turbine...going through its start-up sequence.  Once fully started, "...it's very loud..." (according to the manual) and you have a full range of speed control.

Problem solved. 

You might consider reading the manual.  :facepalm:

As for the horn being incorrect.  If it is, there are 20 other choices for you to choose from.  I am sure the correct horn is there, but I don't know the make and model of the prototype's "blatt" horn, nor what it actually sounded like.

Maybe I'll look in my three UP turbine reference books and see how quickly I can find the answer...here goes!  I'll modify this post when I find the answer...

Edit: I haven't found the type of horn used on the Standard Turbine yet, but there are TWO horns on the roof, making it NOT a "blatt" horn, but a multi-chime horn, both horns sounding simultaneously....which would classify it as a multi-chime horn.  This means that there would be dissonance in the sound since both trumpets are being used at the same time but in different directions.

I'm going to trust Scale Trains that the default horn on the decoder is the correct horn, which they state specifically in the manual that it is.

However, since I'm detail oriented, and just to satisfy my own curiosity, I'll do more research on the subject and see if I can find a video with sound of a Standard or Veranda Turbine at a grade crossing and compare that to what's coming out of my Scale Trains version.


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 06:37:12 PM by robert3985 »

peteski

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2021, 08:14:55 PM »
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The original Big Blow set from Scale Trains (sound equipped of course) also has a "hostler mode" where can hear the diesel engine. But once you initiate the turbine ignition, it sounds like a jet engine!  Look out!  Yes, this is all covered in the manual.
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basementcalling

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2021, 05:47:38 PM »
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FYI, looks like Trainlife has some surplus turbines listed for sale. They don't do much discount for any of their listings compared to other online vendors, but they are the first hobby shop I've seen to list any of the new standard turbines for sale.
Peter Pfotenhauer

gkoproske

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2021, 12:34:46 PM »
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As for reading the manual, what I went by is the DCC Function Mapping chart at the bottom of the middle page, which is commonly listed by ScaleTrains and BLI.  The F button assignments show F3 as coupler crash instead of turbine startup, and the gyralite talked about in the narrative for F7 shows other more generic assignment.  So perhaps ScaleTrains should read their own manual for consistency.

martin station

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2021, 02:17:29 PM »
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   Gkoproske, I have seen two YouTube videos on the unboxing and reviews of these and both manuels are labeled in the lower left hand cover as HO instead of N. Could the factory have made a mistake and printed the wrong manuel for a future HO release of these? Or does the inside contents confirm that it's only a cover printing error? What scale does your manuel say it is on the cover?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 02:20:35 PM by martin station »

spookshow

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2021, 08:09:50 AM »
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I thought of that, but I'm reticent to try it. I had many issues with the trucks on the 8500s in messing around. The sprung wheel wipers turned axle reinsertion into an infuriating game of whack-a-mole, and I really don't want to relive that experience.  :|

FWIW, these have a completely different pickup scheme from the 8500s. Instead of those annoying wheelback wipers, these appear to have standard axle-tip wipers. Better still, you can now access the axle gears without having to completely disassemble the trucks.



-Mark

peteski

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2021, 02:02:21 PM »
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FWIW, these have a completely different pickup scheme from the 8500s. Instead of those annoying wheelback wipers, these appear to have standard axle-tip wipers. Better still, you can now access the axle gears without having to completely disassemble the trucks.

-Mark

That's great!  Another manufacturer finally figured out that it is the best possible solution for electric pickup, and smooth low-friction running.  Welcome to the pointy-axle collective!
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spookshow

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Re: Scale Trains First gen turbine
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2021, 07:16:56 PM »
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That's great!  Another manufacturer finally figured out that it is the best possible solution for electric pickup, and smooth low-friction running.  Welcome to the pointy-axle collective!

Just to be clear, I don't think they're "pointy-axle" wipers. After the 8500's, STC switched to using wipers where the axle ends seat inside of holes in the wipers (ala BLI). But either way, it's definitely better than those insane wheelback wipers that they used on the 8500's.

-Mark