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Big Boy Big Boys everywhere but not a Yellowstone to drink...
I'm aware of the slipping "feature".I still say it will be a silly gimmick which will make these more difficult to "decoderize", and likely decrease their puling ability (motor is likely lighter than equivalent weight inside the boiler).To clarify, 1:1 loco's engines are rarely in since with each other, but they aren't constantly slipping either. They are just off by certain number of degrees and stay that way. Other (single-motor) models of articulated locos have engines not in sync. And in N scale I don't think that slippage will occur very often either. Again - a gimmick.
Evidently Peter, you don't know what you're writing about. Having owned and modified over 20 N-scale Big Boys over the years, I'm thinking that the Kato rumor of two motors is a great idea...if it can be done.First, I will assume that Mr. Kato, who is a rabid Big Boy (and UP) fanboy, will not allow an engine to go to market that won't run. Whatever science Kato used to increase the pulling power of their UP FEF-3, if they can double that in a Big Boy model, that would be phenomenal, because the FEF-3 is the best-pulling RTR (non-modified) steam engine I've ever had.The problem with N-scale Big Boys (and other big, articulated N-scale engines) as far as pulling power is concerned, is that the front engine, from a functional standpoint, is virtually useless. The prototype uses a bearing surface that utilizes a slippery oil to put proper weight on the front engine, but still allow it to articulate as to "go around curves." In N-scale a properly articulated Big Boy model needs about an 18" minimum radius to function, with the front engine sticking WAY out on the inside of the curve, with the smokebox hanging WAY out on the outside of the curve. Noticeably, as compared to all RTR "plastic" large articulated steam locomotives, on properly articulated N-scale brass models, the cab doesn't do much swinging back and forth. But, on minimum radius trackage, the Athearn Big Boys and Challengers will hit tunnel portal sides, insides of bridges with their CAB SIDES...not the smokebox.This swinging back and forth of the cab on Athearn articulateds drives me crazy. It looks very unprototypical, and it is.To allow the front engine to articulate and follow the rails, it is basically totally unweighted. The massive Big Boy in N-scale has the pulling power of a 4-8-4, the rear engine doing the vast majority of transferring power to the rails.IF Kato can find where to place the separate motor's weight on the front engine, or find a way to transfer boiler weight to both ends of the front engine, then...pulling power will be doubled...while retaining the look and motion of the prototype articulation.One of the signatures of articulated steam locomotives is the out-of-sync sound of each engine operating separately from each other, as well as the look of the out-of-sync motion of the rods and drivers between the front and rear engines.If Kato can pull this off, vastly increasing the pulling power of an N-scale Big Boy, retaining the actual articulation of the prototype, allowing each engine to slip independently, syncing the sound output of each engine so that each engine produces its own chuff, its own rod clank, and whatever other noises the prototype produces due to separate front and rear engines, I would hardly describe these excellent features as "silly gimmicks"....just excellence.I haven't even started talking about appearance. When prototype Big Boys are viewed from the side, there isn't a huge, gaping space between the rear cylinders and boiler...in fact there is NO space, because the boiler sits on a saddle that the cylinders are cast into. There also isn't a gaping space near the front of the boiler either, since the front part of the boiler rests on the aforementioned "slip" plate, transferring boiler weight to the front engine drivers. If Kato uses something similar (in miniature) to reliably transfer boiler or motor weight to the front engine, the appearance of the model will be exponentially improved.Since the rear engine on the prototype doesn't swivel from side to side, the large, insulated steam pipes running along the front half of the boiler from the tops of the rear cylinders to the articulated steam joint that the movable front steam pipes are attached to, then attached to the front cylinders....will contribute to the prototype look as well as lessen the gaping air space prevalent on every other RTR plastic large articulated N-scale steam engine.All of this, including either two sound decoders, or one purpose-built sound decoder that senses the speed of each engine's drivers and matches them automatically, but allows them to be out-of-sync with each other, but syncing with each engine's mechanical motion for proper sound, is definitely possible, but will be expensive.I am sure that this expense is one of the main things that Kato is exploring minimizing, but even Athearn Big Boys are going for over $400 right now....I'd be more than willing to purchase several Kato Big Boys for 100 bucks more if they are more prototypically detailed and run as well as their FEF-3...with double the pulling power, with prototype articulation.Gimmicks? Truthfully, isn't ANY improvement, or excellent feature on a model a "gimmick" to increase desirability and sales? I'd say that Kato, if it can be done, will do it well, and am prepared to be highly impressed, with both praise and multiple purchases.I am afraid that you CAN have too many Big Boys, since the prototype only had 25 engines. It's easier to have too many FEF-3's, since UP only had ten of them.Cheerio!Bob Gilmore
I don't have a dog in this one (I find the big boy to be oversaturated) but the issue with articulated engines is they go in and out of phase, not out of sync. Peteski, the issue is the front engine and rear engine start with the drivers/rods all in the same position and slowly drift out of phase until they are 180 degrees apart and then they drift back again. I want to say this happens 2 or 4 time per mile. This probably would be hard to replicate with both sets of drivers geared to the same motor.
But there were modification in radiator placement , and 4019 had elephant ears for a second . So there is a exception to the 25 limit . Oh and 4014 is now oil fired , and 4005 was also for a test which was judged a fail by UP then . The we have the changeover from linked lubricators to chain driven ones . Probably up to 50 by now .
You're right Bob - I have no clue about what I'm talking about. Sorry to have posted my false wisdom here.You are also wrong in many ways. True, the articulation (of both engines) on the Con-Cor and Athearn locos is unprototypical, but that doesn't mean that the front engine is there "just for looks", It supports a good portion of the boiler's mass (which means it there is lots of adhesion there).I also don't understand everybody talking about the new "out of sync" feature when using separate drive for each engine.Single-motor driven permanently-coupled engines all can be set up (and usually are) to be out of sync. A single sound decoder can also be set up to simulate articulated steam exhaust. The only thing that is missing is the possible change of the out-of-sync amount if one engine slips. But as I mentioned earlier, even with separately powered engines in N scale, I highly doubt there will be much slippage occurring during operation. A 1:1 engine slippage does not scale down to N scale. The N scale engines might as well be permanently coupler to a single motor (and run with a constant out-of-sync amount).I own a Sakatsu brass Big-Boy which is properly articulated. The rear engine does not swing, and the front engine's pivot is behind its last driver. It needs rather broad curves, and the front engine ends up swinging way out form under the boiler. Of course it is powered by a single motor (and the engines are set up permanently out of sync). Also, in that model, the front engine is mostly "for looks", since it does not support any of the loco's weight.Since Kato is designing this loco to run on small Japanese layouts using Unitrak, I have feeling that both engines will be articulated Bob. Just like Athearn and Con-Cor. If the rear engine is fixed, I'll eat a bag of Woodland Scenics walnut shells ballast!
Peter @peteski I am happy that you admit so readily you don't know what you're writing about!
I hope Kato is able to include the "silly gimmick" of variable OOS looks and sound in Mr. Kato's Big Boy model!
Well, compared to your God-like wast UP knowledge (including their steam era), I'm a mere mortal neophyte. But I do have half-a-brain, and am able to come up with some valid ideas from time to time.I highly doubt that this loco will come with factory-installed sound decoder(s), or even capable of this highly desired feature. If it will be sold with a decoder, those will be installed locally, by a highly skilled Kato USA employee. But if that model does all that you are all pining for, I'm all for it.