Author Topic: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?  (Read 625 times)

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scaro

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Hi

For weird TT scale related reasons I wondered whether anyone had ever powered the inner - that is, unpowered - axle on a Con-Cor/Kato  PA or DL109 truck?

Ben S.

 

woodone

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2021, 05:24:17 PM »
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Do you mean you want the wheel to pick up power? Or are you trying to drive the wheel?

scaro

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2021, 05:30:58 PM »
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Hi, drive it. Sorry, should have been clearer.

CRL

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2021, 06:54:47 PM »
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If memory serves, those 3 axle trucks were really long relative to the sharper curved track commonly used back then. I seem to remember the middle axle would float side to side so to not bind on sharper radius snap track.

Working off memory here so I might be FOS.

Lenny53

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2021, 07:33:30 PM »
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If memory serves, those 3 axle trucks were really long relative to the sharper curved track commonly used back then. I seem to remember the middle axle would float side to side so to not bind on sharper radius snap track.

Working off memory here so I might be FOS.

Middle axle is geared, it's inner axle that is the idler as per the original post.

learmoia

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2021, 07:52:05 PM »
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What about the Lifelike Erie Built/PA Truck.. I think that has all wheels geared.

“You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” ~Homer Simpson

scaro

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 08:03:50 PM »
+1
I believe those LL Eries and PAs have unpowered middle axles.

Mark5

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 08:10:46 PM »
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I believe those LL Eries and PAs have unpowered middle axles.

Kato PA trucks definitely all axles powered (this probably doesn't help).

scaro

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2021, 08:23:53 PM »
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Kato PA trucks definitely all axles powered (this probably doesn't help).

Con-Cor are preferable since - correct truck wheelbase (for what I need it for, anyway) easier to regauge & hack up the mech, and cheap. 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 08:27:06 PM by scaro »

thomasjmdavis

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2021, 09:02:56 PM »
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Well, I haven't tried, but I would hypothesize that it would be difficult.  On the Con-Cor (at least mine), the pivot point and gear tower of the truck are centered between the 2 geared axles- that is to say geared axle-pivot-geared axle-space-idler axle (with the rear truck being reversed).  With careful machining, you could fit the gears into the space, but I would anticipate potential binding due to the location of the drive, and the stress on the 2nd (center) geared axle.
Tom D.

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thomasjmdavis

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 12:11:07 AM »
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As another possibility.... The Con-Cor PA truck axle spacing is very close (the same?) as the axle spacing of an E-8 truck (some folks assert this is the reason the Con-Cor PA truck is "short"- essentially an E-8 truck with different sideframes).  While the Kato E-8 is longer overall than a PA (but shorter than a DL-109), perhaps the truck offers a solution to the all wheel drive at that axle spacing.

I am unclear on what your project is (I am guessing it is TT narrow gauge- or are you replacing the axles with TT scale axles?)
Tom D.

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peteski

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2021, 01:04:59 AM »
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Ben prefers N scale trucks with inside bearings because IIRC, he re-gauges them to 12mm (TT gauge).
. . . 42 . . .

scaro

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2021, 02:21:54 AM »
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... but I would anticipate potential binding due to the location of the drive, and the stress on the 2nd (center) geared axle.

Yes, that's what I wondered, that it would put stress on that centre axle as it is going to be responsible for transmitting power to the rear axle.

Well, it was maybe a nice idea!


thomasjmdavis

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2021, 10:36:58 AM »
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Yes, that's what I wondered, that it would put stress on that centre axle as it is going to be responsible for transmitting power to the rear axle.

Well, it was maybe a nice idea!

Well, before taking my word for it, you probably should consult with any of the several folks here who have more experience with these things than I do.  Perhaps with metal gears?

Very intriguing project in any case. 

If you decide to go ahead and experiment, I do have a Con-cor PA parts loco (bought as a dummy with no motor or idler gears, but has geared axles and the frame).  I'd be happy to trade geared axles for blind axles (since those would serve the purpose I have planned for what is left of this loco).
Tom D.

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If you don't make it, I can't buy it.

Sharky_McSharknose

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Re: powering the unpowered inner wheelset on a con-cor PA or DL109 ?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2021, 01:39:04 PM »
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I believe those LL Eries and PAs have unpowered middle axles.

Yes, the LL Erie/PA/DL109 truck is A1A, just like the prototype!