Photo Etched Turnout Details: N Scale Code 40 No. 10 Turnout

[peteski]

If you can find some low temp solder paste, this can be done in an oven with a nice even heat that will let the solder flow between the layers.

Trick is you will need to apply the paste and clamp the parts together or the solder will be like wet ice and the parts will skate.  Suggest adding a very small pin hole through all of the parts for some 0.015" PB wire to act as an alignment pin that can be snipped off after the assembly.

You probably missed the photos. Ed already incorporated alignment feature into his design. 

[Missaberoad]

Have you asked proto87stores how they assemble their frog kits? Maybe they would have some tips that would help...

[ednadolski]

... can’t you solder one layer at the time? 

To be candid, I'm not sure how that would work.  It would probably need to be done pretty carefully, to avoid building up too much thickness or making things uneven...?

This is the actual one I have:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-ST2200T-Butane-Micro-Torch-330194/100564678

Ordered, should arrive in hopefully about a week or so.   

Torch might be a viable option, but will the wood base be sturdy enough to survive the torch flame?

I'm thinking just to slip a bit of ceramic tile between the assembly and the plywood....



Ed

[peteski]

Ceramic tile is a good idea, as long as you can still utilize the alignment pins.  I think I have seen some sort of ceramic "foam" designed to be a base for soldering.  That might be soft enough to install the pins into it.  Or how about using pumice stone?  You should be able to pick up a small piece at a health/beauty section of pharmacies or supermarkets.

I'm also not sure why you think there might be a buildup pf solder between layers.  If the layers are flat then the liquefied solder will flow almost like water, with very thin layer remaining better the layers.

[MK]

I would not use a tile over plywood.  Although technically a tile won't burn or disintegrate under a torch flame, it can conduct/carry the heat of the flame to the backside of the tile.  The plywood would them be charred and/or burned.

Don't ask me how I know.  I'm reminded every time I use my workbench.   

[Lemosteam]

You probably missed the photos. Ed already incorporated alignment feature into his design. 

No I didn't, just think having pins in the PARTS would align them better.

[Sokramiketes]

I'm with the folks mentioning paste solder, on each layer like you're applying flux, and a torch to heat the whole assembly.

Trying to use an iron and feeding solder from the sides is going to be too messy for the precision you're looking for.  You're looking for more of the jewelry approach to soldering and bonding.

[Lemosteam]

Te reason I do not favor a torch over the oven is that the torch will not heat all of the parts simultaneously, or evenly, maybe even warp the thinner sections, and if there is any clamping they will act like a heat sink.  In an oven, all of the parts and the clamps will heat together evenly, so if the parts are clamped, the solder will just melt between the layers.

[peteski]

No I didn't, just think having pins in the PARTS would align them better.

I believe what you see in the photo is not misalignment but artifacts of the undercutting from the etching process.  The sides of thick etched parts are not straight but concave.  You had parts etched, so you know that.  But maybe I'm not seeing things correctly.

[ednadolski]

I believe what you see in the photo is not misalignment but artifacts of the undercutting from the etching process.  The sides of thick etched parts are not straight but concave.  You had parts etched, so you know that.  But maybe I'm not seeing things correctly.

In that pic there it seems to me you might be looking at the part that I bent with the iron (that part of the top wing rail).  There are no (designed) curves on the frog parts, they are all straight lines (other than the alignment holes) but as the metal is only 0.010" thick then any cusping from the etch process would be at most half of that, thus rather hard to discern in these kinds of pics.  You can see tho on the 'pointy' parts that there is a gap under them where no solder got in, which is also a problem.

WRT any kind of oven/torch/reflow station - it will be important to judge the right amount of solder, as too much would result in an overflow kind of mess (and not enough would be, well, not enough).  Some reflow/rework stations vary the heat level, mostly in order to avoid damaging electronic components (not an issue here, clearly) tho that could perhaps help avoid warping.   There are also printing solder pastes which might produce more uniform results, but those have to be applied with a mask and are starting to become a bit more sophisticated process than I was hoping to get into.

Ed

[peteski]

We might all be talking about different things.  I was specifically speaking about the right side closure rail.  There seems to be misalignment between the top and 2nd layer down (looking from the closure rail side of the frog).  I thought it might just be etching undercut of the top layer, while I think you are talking about the slightly inward curved frame (on the left) that holds the frog parts aligned.

Actually I think you might have explained the problem with getting enough heat. If you are heating the frog by heating the outside frame, there will be very little heat transferred through the thin metal bridges which are holding the frog parts.  I would have placed the iron's tip  right on the largest part of the frog itself).  Even if there is some solder left in undesired location, it can be easily filed off or even sopped up using desoldering wick (braid).

I have not read every post in this thread, and I didn't realize that the parts were etched from 0.010" stock. What is the reason for not going with thicker material (and fewer layers to solder)?

[ednadolski]

I have not read every post in this thread, and I didn't realize that the parts were etched from 0.010" stock. What is the reason for not going with thicker material (and fewer layers to solder)?

My primary purpose for making the etch was to do the turnout tieplates, and the 0.010" is the right thickness for that.  The layered frog idea was basically an add-on, since there was enough real estate on the fret.   As such I think of it as a low-priority experiment, just to see how it would work out, but it would have to be a separate etching project to try it as a different thickness.

Ed

[Frank Amato]

I feel your pain @ednadolski !  I wrestled with a few Proto87 frog kits before going back to forming them from rail. 

  Frank

[railnerd]

Ed, yeah that solder paste and a hot air rework station are what I was talking about.  I think getting even heat is your most important thing to avoid warping.

[ednadolski]

I wrestled with a few Proto87 frog kits before going back to forming them from rail. 

I've used a few of those frogs tho I've always ordered them pre-assembled.  They seem to work well enough, esp. if replacing a conventional NMRA HO frog in a commercial turnout.  They are etched from a thicker metal, so it is a bit more evident to see the cusping that @peteski mentioned.

The P:87 specs are actually rather close to N-scale dimensions (e.g. flangeways) so aside from the rail size there isn't all that much difference -- if you can build one from rail, then it's not terribly hard to build the other (the code 40 rail is easier to form/file, tho of course it is also easier to bend unintentionally if not careful).

Ed