The New Northern Central

[basementcalling]

Doing the math, you can cut eleven 4" "stringers" from a sheet of 4x8 plywood.  We lose one due to the kerf of the cutting blade.  These would be 8 ft long instead of the 6' ones for $9.50 each.  Even if the ply is $75 a sheet (which I don't think it is), that's less than $6.80 a stringer and they are two feet longer than the 6' ones.  Granted the pine might be a little stiffer but I think these will be used to tie things together.

Of course if Ed doesn't want to deal with the cutting then that's another story.  Convenience vs. savings.   

Ed likes to keep all 10 of his fingers attached. 

[C855B]

Ed likes to keep all 10 of his fingers attached. 

That, actually, is a valid - and serious - point. When I was debating construction methods 5 or 6 years ago, I was seriously considering ripping cabinet-grade or marine-grade 3/4" ply into 1x4 or 1x6 strips for framing. As big as the plans were, I started to compute roughly how many cuts I would have to make, and how much sheet handling was involved. It was a lot. I assessed it as "too much saw time".

First out of the gate would be the space necessary to build a cabinet-maker's shop, even if temporary. Having lots of experience ripping plywood with guides I wasn't about to do it with a hand-held circular saw. So I would need to buy a large table saw that could take sheets, like this: https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-10-3-hp-220v-heavy-duty-cabinet-table-saw-with-riving-knife/g0651, and for the long cuts it would need an accessory extension table. I have handled large sheets through consumer-grade table saws, and it is a serious accident waiting to happen.

Then there's the handling by itself. 4x8 sheets of good 3/4" plywood are heavy. I would need a reliable assistant, which does not include my wife (not strong enough) or any helper we've hired (NOT reliable, period). Clumsiness, lack of strength or a lackadaisical attitude towards safety around spinning blades are nonstarters.

So I re-thought the materials and process, which is where I landed on the XPS foam on metal framing approach. All of the materials could be easily handled solo in their raw state, fabricated with hand tools, and required little strength to cut and shape.

So I agree with Ed - ripping plywood may save a few pennies over "better" finish-grade dimensional lumber, but that's the least of his worries given the scope of his project.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Yep. Exactly. And I NEED my fingers, and with my luck I'd lose the really important two.

It'd be one thing if I had access to the tools and space, but there are just so many hurdles that it's not worth it. Even if it were half as expensive. I simply don't have that much to build.

Mike, I also really, REALLY thought about your metal stud approach. There's a LOT to like there.
But at the end of the day I went with wood because I'm familiar with it. I've been making stuff out of dimensional lumber since high school and am comfortable with how to use it, where to find it, what I need, etc... I figured I might as well enjoy spending time in my comfort zone, ya know?

[CRL]

Our Home Depot has a panel saw that will easily cut/rip a 4x8 panel into whatever size strips you want. They charge by the cut, which used to be $0.50 but that’s been a while.

[Steveruger45]

Our Home Depot has a panel saw that will easily cut/rip a 4x8 panel into whatever size strips you want. They charge by the cut, which used to be $0.50 but that’s been a while.

Both my local Lowe’s and HD have these panel saws and will cut sheets across or lengthwise. Only trouble is the saws seem to be always broken.

[DKS]

Both my local Lowe’s and HD have these panel saws and will cut sheets across or lengthwise. Only trouble is the saws seem to be always broken.

Probably because the employees beat the crap out of them. Also, good luck getting accuracy better than a half-inch.

[nickelplate759]

Probably because the employees beat the crap out of them. Also, good luck getting accuracy better than a half-inch.

Like Ed and basement calling, I try and work around my skills, tool inventory, and where I want to spend my time.  I have had plywood ripped to order by a lumber yard (I've no luck with any Home Depot - their saw is either broken or the tell me they don't do cuts any more).   My preferred benchwork style has evolved to the point where it's a lightweight frame of plywood strips with a rigid top surface (surprisingly, foam glued to the plywood frame is as good as a thin plywood top surface, and much lighter), with judicious application of metal reinforcements - either Aluminum or steel angles.   Steel is far stronger and more rigid, but much heavier and harder to work with.

I'm designing the next layout soon, and am tempted by the steel stud + foam surface technique, but wary of the opportunities for slicing my fingers that steel studs present.   Still better than shortening them with a saw.   I accidentally shortened a finger once (not with a saw by the way), and I've tried to be much more careful ever since.

[DKS]

I'm designing the next layout soon, and am tempted by the steel stud + foam surface technique, but wary of the opportunities for slicing my fingers that steel studs present.   Still better than shortening them with a saw.   I accidentally shortened a finger once (not with a saw by the way), and I've tried to be much more careful ever since.

I've done the steel stud thing, and a pair of gloves solved the finger-shortening problem. I did my best to make sure there were no exposed cut edges after assembly, and if there was the occasional sharp point, I'd cover it with duct tape.

[MK]

Ed likes to keep all 10 of his fingers attached. 

Could also be 11 fingers if he's cutting waist high.   

[C855B]

Probably because the employees beat the crap out of them. Also, good luck getting accuracy better than a half-inch.

Or straight 90° cuts. Even going back to my teen years, lumber yards always disclaimed accuracy with those panel saws. So this was a problem long before the big-box DIY chains.

If I had to rely on the store to rip the panel into transportable units*, I would have them make the cuts so the "board" widths were 1" or so over what I needed. That way I could rip them down on a table saw at home to something closer to the desired finished size. Consequently there'd be a lot of waste to figure into your accounting. At that point the primary advantage of plywood boards - these days called "engineered lumber" - would be dimensional stability.

* - The ability to transport 4x8 sheets flat was a high priority in three of my last four vehicle purchases.

Speaking of lumber prices out of control... yesterday I heard from the guy building our cabin-in-the-woods. He said he got a better deal on OSB panels through the local lumber yard, @$10 less than Menards. Still, that came to ~$1500 for the project, just for the sheathing. He offered to put the project on hold until prices came down. I told him "no", there was no assurance prices would go down, and we would then have lost the time. I expressed this is the way it's going to be for at least a year as everybody tries to regroup after the big shutdown.

[freedj]

To get back to Eds choice, I do think clear pine is a nice choice if you want to avoid ripping plywood. 

The knots in pine are always a pain.  They bleed through almost any coating, are sticky, and in something as small as a 1x4 a knot can take up almost the whole face of a board.  The board is likely to twist if its mostly knot.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Big milestone yesterday.

Got all the plywood "shelves" installed (except for a small gap I need to close up in the one corner to the left of this photo). I also glued the foam down on the top level (after I took this photo).



Next up is the "open grid shelves" for the lower level where it is against the wall. I've been struggling with how best to do this.

My current thought is to create L girders supported by the brackets and then lay some 1xX across the top in gaps in the top chord to support the styrofoam base. Roadbed is going to be cookie cut plywood for many of the reasons we discuss above.

I also made some updates to my K-Mount turnout control bracket. I added a fulcrum to allow the small switches to magnify their throw. A friend printed one for me and I need to go pick it up to give it another test. I'm excited about these!

[CRL]

Seems if you’re going to use a mount, you might want to consider using servos driven by Tam Valley controllers. They take up less room than the Tortoise and could be mounted to the turnout directly and accessible from above.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Seems if you’re going to use a mount, you might want to consider using servos driven by Tam Valley controllers. They take up less room than the Tortoise and could be mounted to the turnout directly and accessible from above.

I thought about it. But I have a stash of Tortii ready for reuse, and again, they're my comfort zone.

The mount itself is for hand-throws that aren't going to be powered (like yard tracks).

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Drew up the benchwork plan.

https://www.tinkercad.com/things/iPyf4StGPnb-open-grid-l-girder-shelf-benchwork





The brown is 3/4" plywood.
Blue is 1x2s.
Dark red is 1x3s.
Lighter red is 1x4s.
Green is 1" foam.

What you're seeing is L girders that will sit on top of the white shelf brackets. They then have a 1x2 stringer that runs the length to provide support for the non-structural foam. There are 1x2 risers that go up to support the roadbed. The blocks in the front are so that I'm not attaching the non-pictured fascia to the ends of boards.

I'm feeling pretty good about this.

So tell me why it won't work.