Author Topic: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared  (Read 3233 times)

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Lemosteam

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It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« on: February 12, 2021, 09:18:23 PM »
+1
First impressions.

Well made.
Robust
Rigid
Extremely well packaged
Big , and to quote Benny Hill, I like em big!
Refined
KISS

I finally understand what FEP is for., but I don’t understand why they did not just use glass for the vat floor.

Based on the design I don’t understand how the FEP can be reinstalled so tight as the original. Also, how does the FEP get damaged? Hardened resin over time?



I have some stuff coming before I print, screen protectors, FEP thanks @SkipGear for the link in the other thread.

Thanks @timwatson for the video about the Fast and Tenacious resins. Looking forewarn to using them. Also want to test clear.

Thanks @Chris333 for the video on the screen protector.

One thing I noticed is the tape seal around the screen. Did not see that in other videos so the fear factor of resin getting into cracks is much less, but I still may apply the screen protectors.

Also noticed that the screen is actually a little proud of the base housing.



Build plate leveling seemed simple and easy enough.

@SkipGear, what are your starting settings for printing. I want to sart with that as a direct comparison, especially since our resins are different brands.

C855B

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2021, 09:30:13 PM »
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... how does the FEP get damaged? ...

Typically? Attempting to un-stick bits of failed prints that didn't elevate with the platform, by digging at them with tools... or fingernails.  :scared: (i.e., DON'T do that!)

No glass because glass can't be made strong enough at that thickness (thinness?) to withstand consumer-level handling. FEP film under tension is a good compromise between optical clarity, strength, and process tolerance. As far as tension goes, after a couple of changes you'll have it down.

Chris333

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2021, 09:50:36 PM »
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At each layer the print is stuck to the build plate and the FEP. When it lifts up it pops away from the FEP. (you may freak out when you first hear it). If you do the same print over and over the FEP will get worn in those spots. If little bits of solid resin are floating around you can poke holes in the FEP that way and get resin all over the screen.

The first time you clean the vat you will start to see faint outlines of what you've printed. And wiping it clean will cloud it up some. I use lint free chem wipes. It will get worse over time till you just want a fresh FEP.

The tape around the screen seems like the new thing now ( or is it just a 4K screen thing?) and sitting proud is just like my new printer...

You probably want to go through and check all the bolts are tight and do general snooping around to see what's inside  :)

SkipGear

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2021, 09:52:51 PM »
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So the journey begins.

Step one, check the firmware version and see if there are updates. There has been one since I received my X, not sure if yours would have shipped with the latest or not.

The FEP is flexible because as the build plate lifts from the screen, the FEP will stick to the part, stretch upwards slightly and deform, this helps the FEP peel apart from the printed part. If it didn't hydraulic force would keep the part stuck to the FEP rather than the build plate. The cause of many print failures.

There should be a file included on the USB drive called R.E.R.F. This is the first thing you should print. It is an exposure test file. It will print 8 of the same test figures, .1 sec exposure difference for each. When done, you look at each one to determine which gives you the best result. There are a few video's out there that explain this better.

My current settings for Anycubic Trans. green resin when printing the caboose:

Layer Thickness - 0.025 mm
Normal Exposure - 1.40 sec
Off Time - .5 sec
Bottom Exposure - 30 sec
Bottom Layers - 1*

Z lift distance - 8mm
Z lift speed - 2 mm/s
Z Retract Speed - 4 mm/s
Anti alias 8

*The current firmware in the Photon ramps from your initial layer time, down to your normal exposure time over 10 steps. I have found no need to have a bunch of bottom layers at long exposures.

The only other thing I suggest is running an 80 or 120 grit sanding block over the build plate face to add just a bit more tooth to it. Nothing more than a couple swirls is needed.
Tony Hines

Chris333

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2021, 02:56:11 AM »
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There should be a file included on the USB drive called R.E.R.F. This is the first thing you should print. It is an exposure test file. It will print 8 of the same test figures, .1 sec exposure difference for each. When done, you look at each one to determine which gives you the best result. There are a few video's out there that explain this better.


How does it print all 8 at once with different exposures for each? Does it grid off the UV light somehow?

Lemosteam

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2021, 07:12:46 AM »
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Typically? Attempting to un-stick bits of failed prints that didn't elevate with the platform, by digging at them with tools... or fingernails.  :scared: (i.e., DON'T do that!)

No glass because glass can't be made strong enough at that thickness (thinness?) to withstand consumer-level handling. FEP film under tension is a good compromise between optical clarity, strength, and process tolerance. As far as tension goes, after a couple of changes you'll have it down.

I would imagine that optical tempered glass (aside from the follow up reasons above) in a 1/16" or even 1/8" thickness would not affect the projection of the light and could be replaceable by the average consumer.

Lemosteam

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2021, 07:18:06 AM »
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Ok, so the firmware thing.

How do I update the machine?  Do I run a USB cord from my computer to my printer?

Do I use the phone app?

Does the device connect directly to my WIFI or is it pair via bluetooth to my phone?

SkipGear

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2021, 09:25:05 AM »
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How does it print all 8 at once with different exposures for each? Does it grid off the UV light somehow?

It is a custom pre made file that each layer is 8 images. The first image has all 8 of the test shapes visible and exposes for your std layer time, the next image has 7 visible for .1 sec., then the next has 6 visible for .1 sec etc. After it is down to just 1 visible shape, then it lifts and starts the cycle over.  It was easier to see it in action on the Photon S because that file has them 1 second apart instead of .1 sec apart. You could watch them sequentially disappear on the screen as each layer printed.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 09:32:10 AM by SkipGear »
Tony Hines

SkipGear

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2021, 09:31:30 AM »
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Ok, so the firmware thing.

How do I update the machine?  Do I run a USB cord from my computer to my printer?

Do I use the phone app?

Does the device connect directly to my WIFI or is it pair via bluetooth to my phone?

There are instructions with the file when you download it but you basically unzip 2 files onto the USB stick, insert the stick in the machine and then press play like you are going to run a print.

I gave up on the WI-fi and phone app features, I'm sure it works but the printer and my computer are in arms reach of each other so using the USB stick was simpler. The Wi-Fi features only connected to the phone, not my PC so it would have been, dump files to the phone, then from the phone to the printer, not worth the extra step. I may investigate it later but I'm a firm believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Tony Hines

SkipGear

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2021, 09:35:19 AM »
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I would imagine that optical tempered glass (aside from the follow up reasons above) in a 1/16" or even 1/8" thickness would not affect the projection of the light and could be replaceable by the average consumer.

No glass because it is relying on the FEP to flex for the process to work correctly. Besides FEP is a Teflon like product that is less "sticky" than glass.
Tony Hines

peteski

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2021, 01:21:40 PM »
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No glass because it is relying on the FEP to flex for the process to work correctly. Besides FEP is a Teflon like product that is less "sticky" than glass.

Plus I suspect that the light beam each pixel emits is cone-shaped (like a beam from a flashlight), so the farther away from the screen you are, the larger is the light footprint.  Even at 1/8" I think that would be problematic.
. . . 42 . . .

Lemosteam

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2021, 02:35:43 PM »
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Plus I suspect that the light beam each pixel emits is cone-shaped (like a beam from a flashlight), so the farther away from the screen you are, the larger is the light footprint.  Even at 1/8" I think that would be problematic.

Good point.

This is exactly why the original 3D systems SLA500 used mirrors to project a laser onto the surface of the that followed the trace of the section, but is was very time consuming, also the print was lowered into the vat, not up out of the vat.  The print would lower a bit, and come back up where a wiper bar would come across and leave just a film on the previous layer.  LOL.


SkipGear

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2021, 03:01:46 PM »
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Plus I suspect that the light beam each pixel emits is cone-shaped (like a beam from a flashlight), so the farther away from the screen you are, the larger is the light footprint.  Even at 1/8" I think that would be problematic.

Actually that is not that much of an issue on the current gen printers because the screen now includes a polarizing filter to straighten the light source and minimise the diffusion effect.
Tony Hines

Chris333

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2021, 04:37:45 PM »
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If you use the phone app your prints will come out upside down  :D

timwatson

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Re: It’s ALLLLIIIIVEEEE.. and I’m scared
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2021, 06:18:37 PM »
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Just a word of caution if you prepare to spill resin everywhere you never will - when you don't prepare to spill resin you always will. So be careful because it makes an awful mess and can usually be avoided. My one major spill could have totally been avoided and I wasn't prepared.


Grats on the new toys. You just leveled up your modeling.
Tim Watson
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