Mini Spy Cam Recommendations

[peteski]

The video quality is excellent, but IMO the 2-second delay kills it for remote operations use.  It will probably be ok for running trains on mainline, but trying to stop by a station or switching might get "interesting".

I guess I'll just continue my venture into drone cameras - at least those have real-time video.

[C855B]

Always with the negative waves, Moriarty, always with the negative waves. Don't write it off just yet, the two-second delay (called "latency") is receive-side buffering. There is a magic balance between smoothest video and low latency, you just have to bracket into it based on the system environment. I should be able to adjust most of it out.

[alhoop]

The video quality is excellent, but IMO the 2-second delay kills it for remote operations use. 

I agree but if remote operation is not important, ie just to see how the layout looks from the
engineers point of view, the video in Reply #12 can't be beat - it deserves another look,
might be camera of the year.
Al

[NSEGeorge]

"Always with the negative waves, Moriarty, always with the negative waves"

Wow, a Kelly's Heroes reference, I'm impressed!

[C855B]

Did additional testing - forget about the "two-second delay" thing.

As I said above, any delay is a product of buffering by the player software and NOT the camera. The delay shown in the "live" view on the big TV was a red herring. It was the direct consequence of using OMX Player, the bare-bones-ish video player that comes with the Raspbian distribution on the computer connected to the big monitor. It apparently has a built-in 2000ms buffer that can't be bypassed. I've run into this before with commercial apps. Anyway, I might ask around in the Raspberry Pi groups if anybody knows a way to reduce the buffer.

On a more powerful computer, the 1.5GHz Pi 4 running the railroad, I was running a professional video app, VLC. It's possible there to turn the buffer down to 0ms. However, the real minimum buffer size for a 30fps source is 33ms, the time it takes to receive a complete single frame. After playing around with various buffer allocations, optimal balance between image quality and low latency seems to be 100ms. I was able to get virtually instantaneous response of throttle versus what I saw on the screen. Actually, it was the same amount of latency as the loco in front of you and a WiFi throttle. Really good.

Pete, it's better than good enough. We just have to use a proper player such as VLC or FFMPEG and know how to configure beyond the defaults. If you (or anybody else) want to pursue the cheap "stalk cam" beyond using the "V380 Pro" smartphone app, let me know and I'll post the how-to here.

"Always with the negative waves, Moriarty, always with the negative waves"

Wow, a Kelly's Heroes reference, I'm impressed!

For some reason that scene with Sutherland really sticks in my mind. It's a classic.

[peteski]

Did additional testing - forget about the "two-second delay" thing.
. . .
Pete, it's better than good enough. We just have to use a proper player such as VLC or FFMPEG and know how to configure beyond the defaults. If you (or anybody else) want to pursue the cheap "stalk cam" beyond using the "V380 Pro" smartphone app, let me know and I'll post the how-to here.

For some reason that scene with Sutherland really sticks in my mind. It's a classic.

Sounds like a plan Mike. I'm interested (and I's pretty sure same goes for other enterprising  s too.).  Show us how it's done

Kelly's Heroes!  What a fun movie. First time I saw it was in my early teens, on the big screen in Poland (with subtitles).  That Sherman tank with a megaphone was unforgettable.

[Lemosteam]

Mike, this is by no means negative waves from Moriarty, and you are soooo close IMHO both from a video quality and camera unit's perspective.

Aaaaand here is comes...

However, this is the only reason I don't care for most video "engineer's viewpoints":  The camera is almost never located at the engineer's eye. I realize this can never likely be done inside the cab of an N Scale locomotive.

Even with a rig, the camera needs to be at this position or it will just never look realistic to me.

In the video the camera swings so far off track centerline, that I kinda lose interest.  On the straights of course it looks great.

A long flat car, with the camera just ahead of the lead truck bolster center, and slightly off center would put the lens in the vicinity of the engineer, IMO.

This is what I keep waiting to see in these types of videos.

Please don't hit me.

[C855B]

This is just proof-of-concept on the technical side and nowhere near a finished solution.    That (stupid) stalk is something like 7" in front of the flat car. With the tech proven, now we can disassemble things - Pete's already there - and place the camera where it belongs.

[Lemosteam]

Great, I should have guessed

Go back to bed.  LOL.

[C855B]

Again, this applies to the V380 micro-camera, available at https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-USB-IP-Camera-Wireless-WiFi-IP-Security-Camcorder-HD1080P-Hidden-Cam-Indoor/233009922607 and other online locations.


OK... here goes. I know you won't have issues with any of this, Pete, but for non-computer-professionals, some of this gets pretty down-in-the-weeds techno-nerd, beginning with the first step.

If you trip-up somewhere and lose access to the camera, not to worry, there's a reset button accessible through a paper-clip hole on the side of the case. They even supply a paper-clip-ish thingie with the camera. Hold for three or more seconds with power on to restore factory settings.

Assign a Fixed IP to the Camera

This is crucial, and, miraculously, there is a tool provided to do it in the default app, "V380 Pro". The app and camera assume DHCP and ONVIF. ONVIF, among other things, is a video configuration protocol that automatically polls the network for available cameras. Beyond the setup we'll be going old-school.

• Per instructions, plug-in the camera to a USB power source and download the smartphone app.
• Disconnect router from Internet. This will prevent stumbling into cloud services and other for-pay offers, and keep the Chinese snooping at bay. (Once the app is downloaded, it is possible to operate the app and camera on a closed network, that is, no connection to the outside world. Simply bypass any requests to connect to cloud services, "Try without account" then "Continue".)
• Follow the remaining setup instructions for the "stock" configuration process. You should be seeing live video at this point.
  
• Determine WiFi network's gateway address, and have some sense of other addresses in use within the DHCP subnet.
  
• Make sure the app is actively receiving the video stream. Select "settings" icon on the main display. In the iPhone app it's below the viewer window, all the way to the right. Android should be very similar.
• Scroll to the bottom of the settings screen, and there will be a selection for "Advanced" settings. It'll pop up another screen.
• It will read "Automatic" at the top, meaning it's in DHCP mode. Select "Manual".
• Fill in ALL the blanks - unique IP for your subnet, mask, gateway and DNS. It requires a DNS entry even though a "bare" network like this may not have one; I just use the gateway addy.
• Up at the top of this screen, tap the arrow to return to the previous screen. I think there's a "Save" somewhere in there, but don't have the camera here, and the settings screens are inaccessible without it. At any rate, the IP change doesn't "take" until you're back at the viewer screen.

Viewer should still be live at this point, but it just happens to be broadcasting over the address you just assigned. The address is retained when power is removed. App is technically no longer needed except as a tool to update the clock, invert the image if necessary, and as confirmation the stream is alive.

Prepare and Load a Double-Secret Initialization File

Equally crucial, this is what makes the video stream available to viewing apps beyond V380 Pro.

• You will need the capability of creating and editing a text file on a Micro SD card. You can just use the card which came with the camera if you have an adapter.
• Create a file, ceshi.ini . Key the following two lines:
  
  [CONST_PARAM]
  rtsp=1
  
  The second line must have a <return>. Save the file.
• Remove power from the camera, insert the card into its slot and reapply power.
• When the camera finishes booting (blue LED barely visible through hole in case turns solid), unplug camera and remove card.
• Reapply power. Wait for boot to finish.

Camera is now broadcasting a "public" video stream.

Download a Full-Featured Video Stream Viewer

My preferred viewer for 15 years has been "VLC", available in Win, Mac and Linux flavors. Download from http://www.videolan.org. Assuming VLC:

• Start program, select "Open Network..." from "File" menu.
• Enter in the URL field:
  
  rtsp://<the assigned IP>/live/ch00_1
  
  
• Change the buffer size to 100ms
• Click "Start".

Enjoy. There are a number of options and tools in VLC including one-click recording and full-screen viewing.

If you want to use another viewer, the RTSP URL should be the same.

[C855B]

...Go back to bed.  LOL.

Couldn't. I was writing that novel. Besides, it's Christmas and I can't sleep - getting our COVID shots today.

[Cajonpassfan]

Mike, this is by no means negative waves from Moriarty, and you are soooo close IMHO both from a video quality and camera unit's perspective.

Aaaaand here is comes...

However, this is the only reason I don't care for most video "engineer's viewpoints":  The camera is almost never located at the engineer's eye. I realize this can never likely be done inside the cab of an N Scale locomotive.

Even with a rig, the camera needs to be at this position or it will just never look realistic to me.

In the video the camera swings so far off track centerline, that I kinda lose interest.  On the straights of course it looks great.

A long flat car, with the camera just ahead of the lead truck bolster center, and slightly off center would put the lens in the vicinity of the engineer, IMO.

This is what I keep waiting to see in these types of videos.

Please don't hit me.

This is what I was eluding to in my previous post (#50). But now that you’ve made such progress on the tech side, and implied the stalk/camera may be modifiable, is there a way to separate the head of the beast from the neck and body and use flexible wires between them? If so, one could fix the head/lens on a very short flatcar platform and have the camera always pointing in the right direction. The shorter the better, even a one truck (six-wheel?), non-swiveling, connected to the following hardware car by a swiveling drawbar? The lens flat should be fairly heavy for stability, perhaps just a steel or brass plate?
Or not....
Following with interest, even if my brain hurts from all the tech references😜
Otto

[CRL]

I was just thinking about getting the camera to follow the curve and concluded that the shorter the wheelbase of the camera car, the better it will follow the curve... think shorty ore car. Best tracking would be if the camera mount could be linked to the lead truck and pivot as the lead truck pivots.

Just a thought.

[jereising]

Here's the second test:

Note the lighting is far better.
I'm still concerned about the quality.  This one says it's 4K.  Uh Huh.
But for $50, it ain't all bad.
The rocking I think can be corrected by tightening up the trucks a bit.
I like the viewpoint.
Camera is a bit larger than the other one so it wouldn't fit through the fuel pad, but I can live with that.

Really appreciate the comments.  I've never started a five page thread before!  WooHoo!

[peteski]

Mike, this is by no means negative waves from Moriarty, and you are soooo close IMHO both from a video quality and camera unit's perspective.

Aaaaand here is comes...

However, this is the only reason I don't care for most video "engineer's viewpoints":  The camera is almost never located at the engineer's eye. I realize this can never likely be done inside the cab of an N Scale locomotive.
. . .
Please don't hit me.

Here is a video which has almost a cab view.  The camera is mounted in the loco's nose, so it is just few feet lower and forward of where the engineer sits.  The video was taken with now-inferior equipment, over 10 years ago, so the video quality (at VGA or 640 x 480 resolution) is nothing like what today's cameras can produce.  It was also a live feed over a 2.4GHz link. I edited out many of the momentary video dropouts.  Dropouts and all, we  still enjoyed driving the train on a basement layout room while watching the video on a large screen TV in the living room upstairs, controlling the train with a wireless CVP EZ DCC throttle.