Kato or BLI Alco PA's?

[PJPickard]

I'm on the hunt for some NYC PA's. Which ones are considered the better of the two?
Thanks!

[SP-Wolf]

My opinion -- Kato - hands down.

Wolf

[randgust]

Life-Like did PA's in NYC and you might stumble on a pair.   I've got a couple undecs, they run well and pull like mules.   I wouldn't overlook them.

I've had BLI's on test run (with sound) and they held the record for the most derailment-prone and poor-pickup diesels I've ever seen. 

 Rather than post again I'll agree with the issue being the traction tire wheelsets as mentioned below.   But I also had a couple hidden 11" curves, and a long-wheelbase six-wheel truck with minimal flanges and lack of lateral movement can be kind of fatal.  I manage to get my Hallmark Northern with 8-wheel trucks on the tender through it,  so it's not just the track.   But yeah, they sure looked and sounded great, when they were running.

[rrjim1]

I own 4 BLI PA1s and they all run great, no idea why some people have problems. I did however replace the traction tire wheel sets with regular wheel sets. Here is a video of BLI E8s running threw Peco medium insulfrog turnouts.    https://studio.youtube.com/video/vkZ7lUngSlI/edit

[brokemoto]

I never had the BLI PAs.  The only BLI diesels that I ever have had were the Baldwin Centipedes.  They were prone to stalling.

I have had the old, intermediate and latest C-C PAs as well as the Kato and the LL plastic frame.  I never had the LL metal frame PAs but did have an A-B pair of E-8s.

The first two C-Cs were allright for their time.  The last C-Cs were very good.  I still have them.  They have flywheels and a revamped chassis.

The Katos were very good.

The LL plastic frames were very good.

I would go with the Katos.

I was disappointed in BLI for not doing P&LE PAs.

[MK]

www.spookshow.net

[btrain]

Life Likes are very strong pullers. I have two BLIs, they’re very touchy on pickup and one decoder slowly blew out when I had it on DC once.

[JMaurer1]

I have both the LL and the Katos and love both. Keep in mind that Kato also made PAs for ConCor and they are NOT the same as the ones Kato made for themselves. Lots of people will call the ConCor PA's Kato as well but the easiest give away is the truck mounted couplers (they are also available as dummy units as well). The ConCors are not bad runners, but the truck mounted couplers make them a deal breaker for me. I do have some of the ConCor PAs as well, back in the day they were the only game in town, but they don't ever see any time pulling revenue freight or passengers on any layout for me.

Kato units seem slightly heavier and are easier to convert to DCC, but the LLs can be easier to find and also cheaper.

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/katopa.html

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/llpa.html

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/ccpa.html

[JMaurer1]

Guess I should have included the BLI link as well. I never got any of these due to the initial problems, crazy expensive price, and that I already had all that I needed by the time they came out.

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/blipa.html

[Cajonpassfan]

I'm on the hunt for some NYC PA's. Which ones are considered the better of the two?
Thanks!

Well, maybe it depends on defining “better”, and whether you run DC, DCC, or DCC Sound.
Mechanically, the Katos are, well, Katos; better. The latest run of my BLI’s are pretty good.
As far as looks and detailing, the Katos seem a bit dated to me, by about 30 years. YMMV.
If I were in DC, I’d get the Katos, and add freestanding details (or leave good enough alone)
I run with DCC sound, and the new Paragon 3 decoders are excellent imho, with caps and lots of sound effects.
As far as price, I got my last BLI A unit for under $150. Or one could get a Kato, mill the frame, and buy and install a Loksound 5.
A lot of work and money involved there.
I don’t own any Lifelike PA’s, but have a LL Eriebuilt set on a very similar mechanism. They are excellent runners.
Hope this is useful. Good luck,
Otto K.

[Mark5]

I'm not in this game but, one thing to remember about the Lifelike PA is that the flanges are "bigger" and may not be happy on Atlas C55 track.

If you are running Code 80 or any Peco track this will not be an issue.

Mark

[PJPickard]

Great info, thanks to all of you. I read all the spookshow stuff before...and if Iwere to boil it all down to one question:

What one looks the best? Best details, paint, etc... I was a bit alarmed at the one comment that the Kato looked 30 years out of date detail wise. I won't run a lot and I don't really care much(any) about sound
Again thanks for the info.

[central.vermont]

I did however replace the traction tire wheel sets with regular wheel sets.

I need to do the same thing. Did you have a part number or did you just call them directly?
Thanks, Jon

[delamaize]

IMHO, Go with the Katos.
If you can find a set of the LifeLikes, and the price was right, I'd go for those also. Good runners, strong puller, and usually cheaper. the pickup is the only thing that can cause issues.

[ncbqguy]

All-
Having been involved in three of the four production PAs here are my thoughts;
I suggested the KATO PA as a tribute to Yugi Kato, the founder of Sekisui Kinzoku.  It was his favorite prototype and the first brass model he made when he got into business.  I contacted Life-Like to let them know that KATO was doing them but they already had planned an N Scale version so there was duplication.   Both are credible versions and an improvement over the Con-Cor being much more modern products.
BLI had the PA in their mind before I cautioned them to do something else as there were already three models in the marketplace.  Since they were doing it I suggested that it be built with separate etchings so they could do the Farr-Air grill PA2 version which at that point was only modeled in brass in any scale. 
I have an ABA set and they ran very well.   As I recall they put low friction pickups on them instead of the straight axle in a hole that is apparently easier for the factory.
All can be nice models with the right paint.
Charlie Vlk