Source of Maxon/Faulhaber 4:1 Gearheads

[mmagliaro]

Yes, on some of those Maxons (and I think that includes these), the spur is welded on and it's even worse than how the Faulhabers are welded.  Usually on the Faulhabers, there is one small spot weld on a little piece of shaft on the back of the pinion, and if you buzz that off with a Dremel cutting disk, the pinion just slides right off leaving the shaft intact.  But on those Maxons, the whole thing appears to be heavily welded on the front, and I could not get it off without destroying so much of the shaft that the motor was useless.

I bought two of these just now, partly to have some more 4:1's, and partly to see if I can get that pinion off without ruining the motor.
This is one of those times (one MORE of those times) that I still wish Eldon were with us.  I bet he knew how to get these off.

[mmagliaro]

Update:
I had a couple of motors like this in my stash.  I tried a simpler brute-force approach, but it works, as long as you don't care about saving the pinion.
Just run the motor on clip leads, and carefully graze a Dremel with a cut-off wheel back and forth over the pinion, stopping every 20-30 seconds to so the motor doesn't get too hot.  Gradually, this will grind away at the pinion.  When you get down close to the shaft, the remaining pieces of it just break away and fly off, leaving the shaft.  Any little spot from a weld can easily be ground off at that point, but the vast majority of the shaft remains pretty untouched and smooth.

At least this way, you can get save the motor.  And if you're buying your own replacement pinions (like those brass ones from eBay), getting rid of the pinion doesn't really hurt.

[peteski]

Update:
I had a couple of motors like this in my stash.  I tried a simpler brute-force approach, but it works, as long as you don't care about saving the pinion.
Just run the motor on clip leads, and carefully graze a Dremel with a cut-off wheel back and forth over the pinion, stopping every 20-30 seconds to so the motor doesn't get too hot.  Gradually, this will grind away at the pinion.  When you get down close to the shaft, the remaining pieces of it just break away and fly off, leaving the shaft.  Any little spot from a weld can easily be ground off at that point, but the vast majority of the shaft remains pretty untouched and smooth.

At least this way, you can get save the motor.  And if you're buying your own replacement pinions (like those brass ones from eBay), getting rid of the pinion doesn't really hurt.

Thanks Max - once again you have saved the day, um, I mean "motor"!  Your provide invaluable service to TRW community!

[mmagliaro]

Thanks Max - once again you have saved the day, um, I mean "motor"!  Your provide invaluable service to TRW community!

Thanks, man!
Make sure that as you get down close to the motor shaft with the Dremel, you go easy.  And try stopping periodically and seeing if you can pick off what's left with an Xacto.  You don't want to start grinding on the motor shaft if you can help it.  I'm sure a few little nicks won't ruin it, but it's best to avoid.

[peteski]

Thanks, man!
Make sure that as you get down close to the motor shaft with the Dremel, you go easy.  And try stopping periodically and seeing if you can pick off what's left with an Xacto.  You don't want to start grinding on the motor shaft if you can help it.  I'm sure a few little nicks won't ruin it, but it's best to avoid.

Roger that Max!  I'll be careful.

[Kentuckian]

Update:
When you get down close to the shaft, the remaining pieces of it just break away and fly off, leaving the shaft.  Any little spot from a weld can easily be ground off at that point, but the vast majority of the shaft remains pretty untouched and smooth.

I hope you were wearing your eye pro!

[Mike C]

  OK for the experts here ,,,, Would this Maxon like motor work and live in an HO locomotive that runs on a DCC system ? Or would I be better off getting motors from NWSL ?    https://www.ebay.com/itm/124767455041?hash=item1d0cb84741:g:RBQAAOSwDPBg2Z47  And another question , Where are you finding motors with gearheads ?  My searches of the Bay don't seem to bring up anything except very large motors / heads  or gearheads that have way too much reduction .   Thanks ....Mike

[woodone]

Max, on getting that pestle gear off- try this. I would use a thin card stock square soaked with water and slide between gear and motor. Then cover that with a thin piece of brass, Now with a propane touch heat up the gear to red hot, put some pulling force on the gear to see if it will not just slide off. This is after you have removed the weld.
Just a thought?

[Kentuckian]

Disclaimer: I don’t have any HO engines and have never repowered one. I have no idea about that particular motor, but it looks like it would work.

I have recently joined the Groups.io RepowerAndRegear group. They are awfully high on the inexpensive Mabuichi and Minebea 4 magnet, 6 pole square motors. These are of Chinese manufacture and are inexpensive. These are used primarily in the automotive industry from what I understand, and are available on eBay.

I have never used one and have no idea of the quality. 10mm square Minebea motors are available for N scale but I haven’t ordered any yet.

You may want to contact @metalworkertom.

[mmagliaro]

MikeC  That coreless motor looks like it would work, but just be aware it isn't a Faulhaber, just a knock-off.  So it's impossible to judge the quality without trying it.

woodone - Using the torch... That's a clever idea.  But the problem isn't pulling the gear off the shaft after the weld is removed.  The problem is removing the weld in the first place.  Unlike Faulhabers, where I can often see the little spot weld on the back of the gear and just nick it off with a thin cut-off disk, these Maxons seem to have a deeper, thicker section welded from the front.  If I could get that off, I bet I could pull the gear off with a standard gear puller, no problem.  But getting rid of the weld seems impossible without destroying the gear.

As for that minebea square 6-pole 10mm....
Peteski and I have both bought some of those and experimented.  They are killer strong, quiet, smooth motors, and they can start up almost as slow as a coreless.  I have not had any opportunity to actually try them in an engine yet, but they look like they would be fantastic.  They also make a 15mm square version.

[Mike C]

  Thanks Kentuckian and  Max . I applied to the IO group , and yes at those prices there's no way they could be Faulhaber . 

[metalworkertom]

  OK for the experts here ,,,, Would this Maxon like motor work and live in an HO locomotive that runs on a DCC system ? Or would I be better off getting motors from NWSL ?    https://www.ebay.com/itm/124767455041?hash=item1d0cb84741:g:RBQAAOSwDPBg2Z47  And another question , Where are you finding motors with gearheads ?  My searches of the Bay don't seem to bring up anything except very large motors / heads  or gearheads that have way too much reduction .   Thanks ....Mike

I have a few in that range here at the house. I can check at the shop tomorrow or Saturday . Notably a couple1219 Minimotors in 6 volt and 15 volt . These have the same nose thread as the 10 mm Faulhaber so a 10 mm gearhead will work on those . I have a 1623 with 3.45:1 gear reduction , however the shaft is offset not on centerline . I know this one has been used in some small HO engines by others . I think these are 6 volt also.  Another note is the larger gearheads can be cut down to a better ratio gearhead also.

[Mike C]

@metalworkertom , I think I have the motors covered . I joined the repower regear group and the very first thing I read was advice about HOn3 Motors . These were highly recomended https://www.ebay.com/itm/383718498729 and I have a couple on the way . They should be very smooth runners ..........Mike

[mmagliaro]

  Thanks Kentuckian and  Max . I applied to the IO group , and yes at those prices there's no way they could be Faulhaber . 

Oh, don't assume that.  I'm going by the description of the item and the actual photographs that clearly show it's not a Faulhaber.
Faulhaber surplus motors go for under $20 all the time on eBay.  You just have to look relentlessly and be persistent.  There have been 8mm  0816 Faulhabers going for under $10 for a long time, and a lot of 13mm show up around the $20 mark.  There USED to be a lot of 10mm in that price range, but they've been dried up for a year or more now.

[mmagliaro]

I received my two examples of this Maxon motor that Kentuckian found on eBay, specifically these (from his post with
the photo):

Using two pair of vise grips, I was able to unscrew the gearhead from the motor.  These have some thread locker on them, so they were too tight to unscrew by hand.  Once removed, I was able to pick out the remaining hardened thread locked from the mounting threads of the gearhead and screw it right on to a Faulhaber 1016 motor, and it runs beautifully.  So you could use these 4:1 gearheads on either a Maxon 1017 or a Faulhaber 1016.

That black forked fitting that is on the shaft of the gearhead is held on by a set screw.  The set screw can be loosened with a metric 0.35 size Allen wrench, and then that black fitting comes right off.

As for getting the pinion off this particular motor, if you should want to do that, I have not tried it yet.  As I've posted earlier, I was able to carefully grind a pinion off another Maxon motor I had using a Dremel cut-off disk.  But this pinion doesn't appear to have the same heavy weld in the end of it like the others I have. I may be able to just pull it off with a V plate and gear puller.  I'm going to give that a shot and report back.