Source of Maxon/Faulhaber 4:1 Gearheads

[metalworkertom]

Now that I've got one to look at I see the thread is more substantial than I thought based on memory of a picture I saw some time ago.  I also thought that the end cap was shouldered at full diameter of the case so there was nothing to push against.  That was why I was thinking about a collet to grip the body.  As it is, I will go ahead and make a puller that pulls straight out with a collar that presses against the shell.  Is there reason to press out the opposite end?  I assume it assembles in a bore similar if not identical to the motor end. 

And what about salvaging the parts to make a second one?  Especially the gear case couldn't be readily duplicated but would there be sufficient length left to get another useable part?

The 1024:1 is 22 mm long the 4:1 is 9.7 mm long. So it's possible to build a second one I think. I have a tap and die ordered off e bay so I'll be pulling inserts myself soon.  I'll need a better way to part the case down to size to save enough for 2 cases . Put doubtful I will need to build the second gearhead out of the leftover.

[narrowminded]

OK, I better understand now.  Thanks Max and Tom.  And when I get one apart the rest will reveal itself.  If I had an 8mm I could probably design the tool to work on both the 8mm and the 10mm.  The 8mm probably will need a body clamp to grip the shell but the pushing part can probably be made with a stepped bore to handle both sizes.  It will require a sufficient bore depth as well as proper shell diameter to be assured it will work on both.  Any 8mm bodies to be had, even a scrap one that would afford those dimensions?

[mike_lawyer]

Max -

I have been following this thread and really appreciate the pictures on the last page.  To pull out the collar at the rear of the gearhead, did you have to make any cuts, or were you able to just pry it out?

[mmagliaro]

Max -

I have been following this thread and really appreciate the pictures on the last page.  To pull out the collar at the rear of the gearhead, did you have to make any cuts, or were you able to just pry it out?

Thanks!
I just pried it right out.  Sometimes, I put the screwdriver under one side or the other like a wedge, and tapped with a hammer
so that the wedge drove the gear case up off the threaded insert just a little.  A tap/wedge on each side breaks it free, and then it's just prying all the way like I showed in the photos. . Sometimes the tapping wasn't necessary; it would just "let go" by prying.

And by the way, I am finding no ill effects from doing it this way.  I completed two of them last night on 1016's, and they start and run at 0.22 volt, which is as low and slow as the factor ones can do, and they are quiet - no rattling or whining.

As for cleaning, I tried just pouring some acetone in a glass dish, and swishing the whole gear head in it, after brushing out the obvious heavy stuff.  That seemed to work better.  Swish around, brush it out, wipe brush on paper towel, then swish some more, and so on.   

Another help was washing out the case with acetone BEFORE cutting so that I got rid of any grease or oil in there that tended
to make chips stick all over inside (can't believe I didn't think of this earlier... ugh).

I tried cutting out the teeth in several light passes, working the boring bit out on each pass to open up the hole more and more until I reached the diameter for the insert.  Still no love on damaging the end teeth.  I still had to scrape them out with an Xacto after cutting.  But you know what?  It's not really that bad.  It's just something that must be done.

[metalworkertom]

Thanks!
I just pried it right out.  Sometimes, I put the screwdriver under one side or the other like a wedge, and tapped with a hammer
so that the wedge drove the gear case up off the threaded insert just a little.  A tap/wedge on each side breaks it free, and then it's just prying all the way like I showed in the photos. . Sometimes the tapping wasn't necessary; it would just "let go" by prying.

And by the way, I am finding no ill effects from doing it this way.  I completed two of them last night on 1016's, and they start and run at 0.22 volt, which is as low and slow as the factor ones can do, and they are quiet - no rattling or whining.

As for cleaning, I tried just pouring some acetone in a glass dish, and swishing the whole gear head in it, after brushing out the obvious heavy stuff.  That seemed to work better.  Swish around, brush it out, wipe brush on paper towel, then swish some more, and so on.   

Another help was washing out the case with acetone BEFORE cutting so that I got rid of any grease or oil in there that tended
to make chips stick all over inside (can't believe I didn't think of this earlier... ugh).

I tried cutting out the teeth in several light passes, working the boring bit out on each pass to open up the hole more and more until I reached the diameter for the insert.  Still no love on damaging the end teeth.  I still had to scrape them out with an Xacto after cutting.  But you know what?  It's not really that bad.  It's just something that must be done.

Yes Thank you Max for all the information you share. Unexpectedly had some free time today and completely disassembled a gearhead today with simple tools. I often use the anvil side of a tubing flaring kit to hold round objects . In this case I needed a sleeve to make it right. I used a large piece of heat shrink . Instead of prying I screwed the ground tap in . Locked some small vise grips on the flats of the tap drive end. A couple light taps with the side of the hammer had the threaded insert out. Removed all the planataries out of the case. On the output end there is a "E" clip or circlip if you prefer. Then a flat washer and a wavey washer. Remove this then the output shaft can be removed. Now for the output end cap and bearing. Back in the Flaring tool and a brass punch and a couple light blows had it out. I think the case and gears are one piece at this point. But at any rate now the gearcase can be cut down and cleaned much easier using acetone and a bottle type brush. And no need to clean the internal gear up from cutting it. Cut down the output end no gear rides in that area.

[mmagliaro]

Excellent, Tom!  I never considered pulling out the other end to make it easier to clean.
I would caution you about not cleaning up the teeth.  Even though the planetaries don't ride near the front, eventually
a little piece of that bent-over junk is going to flake off and start wandering around inside the gearhead until it
jams.

[metalworkertom]

Excellent, Tom!  I never considered pulling out the other end to make it easier to clean.
I would caution you about not cleaning up the teeth.  Even though the planetaries don't ride near the front, eventually
a little piece of that bent-over junk is going to flake off and start wandering around inside the gearhead until it
jams.

Max you are absolutely correct. But now it can be a quick debur operation . No need to clean it to gear mesh specs. The planatary can be installed from the other end. Also makes drilling motor mount holes easier to drill and tap if desired. No blind hole tapping it can go all the way through . Really interested in what Narrowminded comes up with.

[metalworkertom]

The clean bore the threaded insert and the input end measure 8.5 mm . After cutting it off I was getting a consistent 8.4 mm. I wonder if a 8.5 mm end mill would cut the recess clean enough and might be better on the internal gear. I'll have to check and see if I have one. I found I had the  tap and die already before what I ordered came in. There is such a thing as too many tools.

[narrowminded]

Looks like you guys have run with it!   What I will make will just be a slightly more refined piece with approximately the same elements.  I may use another old trick for machining the counterbore, using an end mill for a boring bar.  Orient and set center height on one of the flutes and have at it.  Quick and dirty for a shallow cut. 

Make sure the cutter is mounted straight so it won't rub badly.  I have some old mills that when viewed under a microscope (recently purchased) have a chipped corner on one or two flutes so I mark those flutes, not to be used, and use the other flutes for boring bars when they will be adequate.  Their last stop on the way to the scrap heap.

[mmagliaro]

The clean bore the threaded insert and the input end measure 8.5 mm . After cutting it off I was getting a consistent 8.4 mm. I wonder if a 8.5 mm end mill would cut the recess clean enough and might be better on the internal gear. I'll have to check and see if I have one. I found I had the  tap and die already before what I ordered came in. There is such a thing as too many tools.

Very interesting.  I was measuring everything in decimal inches, and I got 0.335" for the insert bore (and 8.5mm is .3346", so yeah, we are in agreement).  It never occurred to me to think about a metric end mill being just the right size.  But man, that end mill better be dead-center with the spindle within under .001", or there will be trouble.   With a boring bar, all that matters is that the spindle is running true.  But if I put an end mill in the tailstock and bore out the can end with that, and there's any misalignment between the tailstock and spindle at all, it won't work.

[metalworkertom]

Looks like you guys have run with it!   What I will make will just be a slightly more refined piece with approximately the same elements.  I may use another old trick for machining the counterbore, using an end mill for a boring bar.  Orient and set center height on one of the flutes and have at it.  Quick and dirty for a shallow cut. 

Make sure the cutter is mounted straight so it won't rub badly.  I have some old mills that when viewed under a microscope (recently purchased) have a chipped corner on one or two flutes so I mark those flutes, not to be used, and use the other flutes for boring bars when they will be adequate.  Their last stop on the way to the scrap heap.

I think you will have valuable insight in this project Mark. It will likely be Monday before I can do more. Saturday and Sunday are about the only shop days I can get anymore. And I have several projects going on that I need to get to a point I can work on them at home some.

[metalworkertom]

Very interesting.  I was measuring everything in decimal inches, and I got 0.335" for the insert bore (and 8.5mm is .3346", so yeah, we are in agreement).  It never occurred to me to think about a metric end mill being just the right size.  But man, that end mill better be dead-center with the spindle within under .001", or there will be trouble.   With a boring bar, all that matters is that the spindle is running true.  But if I put an end mill in the tailstock and bore out the can end with that, and there's any misalignment between the tailstock and spindle at all, it won't work.

Yes I'm going to have to check all my Chuck's for run-out. The one I'm using now was best of the I think 6 I have. But I didn't record the amount of run-out or check in comparison to the tailstock. All that being said my tailstock chuck will not hold a 8 mm bit or mill . But I have to dig around and see what I have.

[SkipGear]

Meanwhile, the bargain basement 4:1 gearbox is alive....

Currently stuck on the nose of a 12v 1219. It really needs a stainless thrust washer between the planets and the nose of the motor but other than that it works quite well. Even though it sounds loud on the video, it is barely audible at 12" away from it. The microphone on my phone was looking for any noise to pick up including the music which I though was too low to hear.

[mmagliaro]

Tony, I think that gearhead looks great.  The noise isn't bad at all.  It will not be audible in an engine.
So, I have some of those I picked up from eBay a while ago.  How did you mount it on the 1219?
Got any pics?

[peteski]

It's magnetic for sure. I had a ragged cut that seperated some teeth. Broke a couple off and definitely sticks. The case and teeth are definitely seperate parts not sure if photo will show it .
     

What caused those teeth to separate from the case (especially since now you think it is all made form a single piece of metal)?