Author Topic: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab  (Read 3321 times)

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Chris333

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2021, 11:25:37 PM »
+2
It runs a lot better. It is slower. The old one could barely make it around the layout without me tapping to get going. I used 2 of them to make HOn30 items.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4qVmhsq9gnUjxevS7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/39JQfg4mN5mWgGuL8

I believe they are 11-109 and 11-110. They are not super powerful.

peteski

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2021, 11:32:52 PM »
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I believe they are 11-109 and 11-110. They are not super powerful.

Yes, those are the new (coreless motor and equalized suspension) "critter" chassis'.   Not sure what "powerful" means, but they will easily spin the wheels, slipping under load. They aren't great pullers because they don't weight much (same as the old critters).  IIRC, the coreless motor is the same as used in the full size FEF-3 loco, so it has plenty of torque.
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Chris333

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2021, 11:49:47 PM »
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The older chassis were direct worm to worm gear on the axles. The new ones have further reduction to one wheel and then spur gears power the other wheel. So while the gear ratio is greater than it was I doubt it is as high as the FEF. That is what I meant about the power.

I thought I took more photos, but I can't find anything more than what I posted.

up1950s

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2021, 10:47:29 AM »
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Thanks Chris , I ordered 1 of each for the MOW fodder department , The dept head gets moody without inspirational parts . :|

up1950s

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2021, 11:07:54 AM »
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The old one could barely make it around the layout without me tapping to get going.

I believe they are 11-109 and 11-110. They are not super powerful.

You just gave me an idea for the sparkies that hover here . Instead of , or combined with the large cap to enable coasting over continuity fails what if the cap fed one of those vibration motors . Maybe , just maybe the little bugger could get off ........... the dead spot . If the vibe motor had a itty bitty batt it could be R/C controlled at will , like a remote finger tap . Perhaps too Rube Goldberg , but it might work .


randgust

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2021, 11:10:00 AM »
+1
Chris does it run like a Deere ? Creepability ? Turnout stallin' ? Powered Burro Crane fodder ?

If you really want a Burro crane you can do it, but not with this one.   This remains the smallest thing I've ever made that is actually self-propelled.  This is the Tsugawa (sp?) single-axle drive, but with all that cast weight on one end it still worked OK - after I swapped Kato wheels on it as the wheel profile on the original was hopeless.





Secret to this one was marrying it up with a 40' flatcar with Kato caboose trucks under it so that it had flawless electrical pickup.  Runs great.

Now, on this one.... Chris - can you do a dead 'side-on' shot of the chassis and a dead 'look down' on it?   I'm trying to determine how that frame is held together other than the clip, as this one goes beyond the wheel/axle centers where the old one didn't.   Wondering if the metal split frame outboard of the axles can be removed, or if the motor is actually beyond it as well.

up1950s

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2021, 11:11:19 AM »
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. I used 2 of them to make HOn30 items.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4qVmhsq9gnUjxevS7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/39JQfg4mN5mWgGuL8

I believe they are 11-109 and 11-110. They are not super powerful.

As usual Chris your results don't vary . Outstanding uses of the chassis ,  beautiful models .

Chris333

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2021, 03:44:38 PM »
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I painted the bottom plate, the pick-up strips, the wheels, and part of the frame.

The motor sits at an angle.






Tweezers holding the contact strips in place for the photo. Bottom plate removed.



peteski

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2021, 04:38:04 PM »
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The older chassis were direct worm to worm gear on the axles. The new ones have further reduction to one wheel and then spur gears power the other wheel. So while the gear ratio is greater than it was I doubt it is as high as the FEF. That is what I meant about the power.

I thought I took more photos, but I can't find anything more than what I posted.

The coreless motor used in these locos has a lower starting voltage and greater torque than standard Kato motors (end even more than the small motors used in previous versions of critters).  I still  don't quite understand how power is applied to this or measured.

What is power? Ability of the motor to drive the wheels (regardless of whether they are adhering to track or slipping?  Ability of the chassis to pul x-number of cars?
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Chris333

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2021, 05:04:09 PM »
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I would say in this case power means you kind of have to turn the throttle up to get it moving and then back the speed down. Maybe torque is the word?

Still the old chassis has 2 speeds: fast and not moving. So this new chassis is much better.

Jbub

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2021, 06:28:04 PM »
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I would say in this case power means you kind of have to turn the throttle up to get it moving and then back the speed down. Maybe torque is the word?

Still the old chassis has 2 speeds: fast and not moving. So this new chassis is much better.
All electric motors have a starting voltage. It's the amount of energy/power/whatever term you want to call it, needed to overcome the resting state. It usually is higher than what is needed to keep them motor in a motion state. We have to deal a lot with this for our culinary water pumps in the city I work for. The start cycle of these pumps can easily be pushed into the power companies excessive ramp voltage which can cost the city a LOT of money.
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CRL

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2021, 07:23:50 PM »
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Lack of weight is the bugaboo of any small critter in n-scale. Only option would be using depleted uranium but that could have other ramifications… like a visit from the FBI.  :scared:

peteski

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2021, 08:03:46 PM »
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I would say in this case power means you kind of have to turn the throttle up to get it moving and then back the speed down. Maybe torque is the word?

Still the old chassis has 2 speeds: fast and not moving. So this new chassis is much better.

I see what you mean now.  Coreless motors, with their lightweight winding basket rotor, and without iron core do not exhibit this effect when starting. Or if they do, it is pretty much imperceivable .
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peteski

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2021, 08:07:25 PM »
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All electric motors have a starting voltage. It's the amount of energy/power/whatever term you want to call it, needed to overcome the resting state. It usually is higher than what is needed to keep them motor in a motion state. We have to deal a lot with this for our culinary water pumps in the city I work for. The start cycle of these pumps can easily be pushed into the power companies excessive ramp voltage which can cost the city a LOT of money.

While the standard small permanant-magnet DC motors used in many models do exhibit that effect to some extent, I think that large water pumps use AC induction motors. They work on different principles. Those have special starting circuit that engages an extra winding during start to get them to start.  Those motors do consume very large amount of power for a brief period of time.
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dem34

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Re: Kato's new pocket line steeple cab
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2021, 07:53:52 PM »
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Just picked one up for science. Runs better than my GP15s, disassembles easily, nice and cheap. Now to see how I can hack it into something.
-Al