Author Topic: Potential PRR H3 offering  (Read 2744 times)

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Lemosteam

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Potential PRR H3 offering
« on: January 05, 2021, 08:30:15 AM »
+6
As a labor of love for @Ed Kapuscinsk to recreate in N Scale a reasonable facsimile of PRR 1187 at the RRMPA, I have been designing a retrofit kit for the Athearn/Roundhouse 2-8-0 with the common tender frame.

Wondering if I should offer this at Keystone Details; basically,would there be interest in this kit?

Hence the reason for the related topic here.

Below is a non running test fit of the printed results. There are minor tweaks to make here and there but the concept is sound and requires a Bachman K4 careless motor from their parts department. The printed drive cup fits perfectly with the original driveshaft, and I have already repositioned the motor cradle to allow for an improved driveshaft angle.

Aesthetic partsi included with the kit are:
Belpaire overlay
Cab
Separate side window frames (not shown) for painting and adding glazing
Under frame air tanks
Frame end extensions with steps (steps were not in this printing, hence not shown
Lowered tender shell with separate water hatch (kit could include additional water hatch styles),:tender shell snaps onto motor cradle for retention.
Tapered smokestack

Mechanical parts:
Motor cradle
Motor end drive cup

Kit requires almost no mods to the OEM parts. Mods are as follows:
Snip off tab on brass contact strip
File tops of original tender mounting risers on chassis
Drill and tap hole in tender chassis for electrical connection

I was able to assemble this far in two hours:















Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2021, 09:51:50 AM »
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I think having two versions: one with the tender (requiring the mods) and one without (that just dresses up the engine) would be good.

One for die hards, one for folks who just want to add the "bolt ons".

Dave V

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2021, 10:09:22 AM »
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I love it...but sadly I'm no longer in the market for one.  I wish Athearn hadn't cancelled their next run of these little guys.  I'm guessing the ones that are out there are all that we'll see.
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2021, 10:11:17 AM »
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I love it...but sadly I'm no longer in the market for one.  I wish Athearn hadn't cancelled their next run of these little guys.  I'm guessing the ones that are out there are all that we'll see.

They did? M'fers!

mmagliaro

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2021, 12:39:08 PM »
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Well, sadly, since I'm not modeling the PRR anymore, I probably would not buy the kit, but that doesn't mean I don't like it!  I think it's a great idea and looks really good on that chassis. 

John, I have a curiosity question: what is the size of the Bachmann coreless motor you designed this for?
I ask because Faulhaber 8mm motors have been surprisingly cheap and easy to find for about 2 years on eBay, and if the size is right, that would be another source for a motor.  The Faulhaber are 8mm diameter, 16mm long.  The output shaft would probably have to be sleeved to accept your U-joint coupling.

Jim Starbuck

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2021, 01:39:24 PM »
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Well, sadly, since I'm not modeling the PRR anymore, I probably would not buy the kit, but that doesn't mean I don't like it!  I think it's a great idea and looks really good on that chassis. 

John, I have a curiosity question: what is the size of the Bachmann coreless motor you designed this for?
I ask because Faulhaber 8mm motors have been surprisingly cheap and easy to find for about 2 years on eBay, and if the size is right, that would be another source for a motor.  The Faulhaber are 8mm diameter, 16mm long.  The output shaft would probably have to be sleeved to accept your U-joint coupling.

Max,

The Bachmann motor is 7 x 16 mm double shaft with a small brass flywheel on one end and a brass worm on the other.

Beautiful work btw John!

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Lemosteam

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2021, 01:40:48 PM »
+1
Well, sadly, since I'm not modeling the PRR anymore, I probably would not buy the kit, but that doesn't mean I don't like it!  I think it's a great idea and looks really good on that chassis. 

John, I have a curiosity question: what is the size of the Bachmann coreless motor you designed this for?
I ask because Faulhaber 8mm motors have been surprisingly cheap and easy to find for about 2 years on eBay, and if the size is right, that would be another source for a motor.  The Faulhaber are 8mm diameter, 16mm long.  The output shaft would probably have to be sleeved to accept your U-joint coupling.

Max the motor is 7mm diameter, x 16,55 mm long at the can, there is a flywheel behind. The shaft is 1mm. An 8mm motor would push the tender up 1mm.  I worked hard to get two,


« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 01:46:50 PM by Lemosteam »

propmeup1

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2021, 04:09:45 PM »
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Beautiful job you've done. I'm still more interested in your older K4 streamline but I guess i struck out there a few months back.

Chris333

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2021, 04:55:18 PM »
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Don't know if I need an "H3", but everything you've done looks great and I could just leave off the firebox.

randgust

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2021, 10:20:17 AM »
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Fairly ignorant about the H3, but I'm immediately struck by how much better it looks with a lower tender.

Excellent overall proportions.

I've always looked at these for modeling the Saginaw & Manistee 2-8-0 (Southwest Lumber 25) on display at Flagstaff and the overly high tender was one of those things that begged to be solved before one would even consider it.  But the basic 2-8-0 has really good mechanical bones.   This thing originally had a square tender, they mated it up with this one for display purposes.

http://www.rgusrail.com/album/azslm25/slm_25_09.jpg
Same engine, square tender (notice how it aligns with bottom of cab windows): https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/azdailysun.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/21/e21e8bb4-85ef-5cac-95be-4a5c1e688813/5efd079f2f8d2.image.jpg

So the hint here is that I think you have an audience beyond SPF's.    Just sayin'.   You don't think of 2-8-0's as being loggers either.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 10:27:21 AM by randgust »

Lemosteam

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2021, 09:43:43 AM »
+1
Hi Randy,

This is a specific project for Ed.  Judging by the response, there are few PRR modelers interested, much less so generic modelers or modelers of other roads.

As a philosophy, design time costs money so any deviations from this design would have to be funded and put in the queue.

I typically design for free what I have wanted for myself and then share my designs via Shapeways for a marginal profit.

I can assure you that just because I design something does not mean hoards of customers come running.  Not complaining, just being honest, and that's OK.


Lemosteam

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2021, 09:52:21 AM »
+5
Update,

I created a YT video for proof of concept.  The design in the video uses the initial horizontal cradle design but I added a spacer under the front of the motor to simulate the latest design.  Some tweaks to the Cab, rear frame extensions and stack for more robustness and fit.  Also added steps that hand from the wires into the latest kit.

Initially, I had thought of printing a new brass tender frame, but no need with the small motor. Cradle now fits OEM frame, so you will not need to mill a hole for the contact pad as I did below.

The DC wiring is very simple: solder a brass washer onto the blue wire, drill & tap a 00-90 hole into the contact pad on the tender and attach the washer to the frame with a short screw (the MT 905 screw worked perfectly).  Solder the red wire directly to the OEM brass contact, just ahead of the rear tender truck screw.  You must also make sure the front tender truck is set for the correct polarity when reassembling.

The only other modification to the OEM tender chassis besides the drill/tap is to grind some material from the "U" shaped notch on the front riser to clear the running drive cup on the motor and to file 1/32" off the tope surfaces of the risers.








Some shots of the tender after Tamiya TS-6 and coal load, the side riser brok during removal so I beefed that wall up in the final design. Wire grab holes are printed in the tender shell and cab.




After replacing the rear TT's on the #4 drivers, she was pulling pretty well, that back grade is 3.17 degrees. Need to check her driver gage too and look to see if I have a kink in the track near the back corner curve into the grade. Going to slap two P70's behind her next:
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 10:14:41 AM by Lemosteam »

brokemoto

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2021, 10:30:04 AM »
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Nice work. 

Will it also work on the MDC?  The wiring on the MDC 2-8-0 is somewhat different from that on the Athearn.  When MDC brought out the 2-6-0, it used a different construction method on the tender.  Athearn copied the mogul construction methods on its consolidated (as well as retaining it for its mogul).

As I recall, the painting and lettering is not difficult for the late nineteenth/early twentieth century versions of these.  I am not using the Google right now, but I seem to recall that it was a large P.R.R. on the tender in Railroad Roman with the number on the cab in similar font.  Even as early as the late 1880s, the Penn was painting them DGLE.  Thus, you could letter them with existing Microscale Alphabet sets.  Those that were still working after the First World War did receive the newer lettering.  At some point during the early twentieth century, they received electric high-mounted headlights and  new fixture.  While some roads, such as the Q, often simply put an electric lamp into the oil fixture, as I recall, the Penn replaced everything.

I would second Ed's suggestion for a simple kit for those who want to have a "looks-enough-like"

Will you include an instruction sheet or post a tutorial somewhere?

I ask about the MDC because they are still out there and often less expensive than the Athearns, that is, if we ever have shows, again.  You used to be able to get a good deal on the MDCs on FeePay, but, these days, thar' ain't no sech thangs as no bar-ghinn on no Fee Pay when you have Mehano diesels that are barely worth five dollars listed at $59,95 plus ten-dollars-fifty shipping.


The wobbly whistle suggests that you learned the hard way to be careful when handling these things.

.....................very nicely done........................

Lemosteam

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2021, 12:38:30 PM »
+3
Nice work. 

Will it also work on the MDC?  The wiring on the MDC 2-8-0 is somewhat different from that on the Athearn.  When MDC brought out the 2-6-0, it used a different construction method on the tender.  Athearn copied the mogul construction methods on its consolidated (as well as retaining it for its mogul).

As I recall, the painting and lettering is not difficult for the late nineteenth/early twentieth century versions of these.  I am not using the Google right now, but I seem to recall that it was a large P.R.R. on the tender in Railroad Roman with the number on the cab in similar font.  Even as early as the late 1880s, the Penn was painting them DGLE.  Thus, you could letter them with existing Microscale Alphabet sets.  Those that were still working after the First World War did receive the newer lettering.  At some point during the early twentieth century, they received electric high-mounted headlights and  new fixture.  While some roads, such as the Q, often simply put an electric lamp into the oil fixture, as I recall, the Penn replaced everything.

I would second Ed's suggestion for a simple kit for those who want to have a "looks-enough-like"

Will you include an instruction sheet or post a tutorial somewhere?

I ask about the MDC because they are still out there and often less expensive than the Athearns, that is, if we ever have shows, again.  You used to be able to get a good deal on the MDCs on FeePay, but, these days, thar' ain't no sech thangs as no bar-ghinn on no Fee Pay when you have Mehano diesels that are barely worth five dollars listed at $59,95 plus ten-dollars-fifty shipping.


The wobbly whistle suggests that you learned the hard way to be careful when handling these things.

.....................very nicely done........................

@brokemoto , thank you. Unfortunately it is unlikely that the tender kit will work in the MDC version, as I do not have one to ensure it will.

There will be two separate kits to order. One for the tender repower/ shell, and one just for the boiler for a cab and boiler refresh only.

As with every kit there will be a set of photo instructions added to my photo albums online. I need to order one more set of kits to finish this model for Ed.

Here is the painted tender with a reasonable attempt at lettering the PRR. The letters came from the North Polar Express set from Microscale.  The dots are gold testers enamel using a sharpened toothpick with a flat on the end.  Wished I would have used a piece of tape to align the full stops with, but this is just a test. Painted with Tamiya TS-6.



brokemoto

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Re: Potential PRR H3 offering
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2021, 09:43:25 PM »
+1
There will be two separate kits to order. One for the tender repower/ shell, and one just for the boiler for a cab and boiler refresh only.

Thank you for the reply.  I guess that those of us who have the MDC can order only the cab and firebox.  MDC actually did issue the 2-8-0 in Penn.  It is painted black, has a number that may or may not be accurate.  It has "PENNSYLVANIA"  spelled out on the tender in white lettering.   That is inaccurate.  I have one example of it.  I can order your cab/firebox kit.  Thank you for the information on the lettering.  It is not diffficult to get off the shell of the tender and locomotive.  Change the cab and firebox, add  some DGLE paint, some lettering and it will look enough like  a Penn locomotive. 

If you want to substitute a round headlight fixture for the mantel clock fixture, it does come out of the firebox easily.