SP Black Widow Overnight Express Photos ???

[Spacecraftcreator]

 

Hi everyone......is there a photo record of what this train could have or did look like ? What color were the 40foot box cars painted ? What type of caboose was used and what scheme was it in ? Google is NOT being my friend at this point..... All I have found so far has been conflicting information....

Thanks

Bob

[Mark5]

Not sure if this is what you are referring to but the 40' box cars (#97620-98069) were black:

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/sp-b-50-24main.html

Mark

[Mike Madonna]

Bob,

Mark is correct regarding the scheme on the early boxcars. SP later painted 300 of the 500 class B-50-24 cars with the silver and orange, black & red lettering in 1956. As for a "caboose", SP used a 60' "Rider" coach painted in Dark Olive (green). The Silver painted C-40 caboose was used when the train went to a TOFC operation (mix of TOFC and Silver boxcars). TOFC trains were known as the "Advance Overnight". Hope this helps...

[Skeebo]

Bob, as with all Google Searches input is paramount, I in a rare moment, found a lot of good links in my first attempt. Here is one that may help: http://www.modelingthesp.com/Rolling_Stock/B-40_thru_B-50.html . Scroll down to the B-50-24 for the cars in question. A very useful reference is SP Freight Cars Volume 4, Boxcars by Thompson. This train was actually called the 'Coast Merchandise Express' on the SP its symbol was CME or CMW depending on its direction of travel, timetable east or west.       Here are a couple of pics I took on my layout of my 1940's 'Coast Merchandise Express'. It is a typical CME/CMW with readily available equipment. Key MT locomotive, Microtrains 40' boxcars and Wheels of time Harriman chair car.

[Mike Madonna]

Skeebo,

Thanks for mentioning the correct SP timetable symbol(s), for which I failed to mention. Very nice train, sir. I found your comment "readily available equipment" interesting since those MTs are a little hard to find (at times). Looks like a later (1999-2000) run "Mountain District" version? They do run very well, as you already know. BTW, like the early AC near the TT!!!

[SP-Wolf]

Hey Guys,

I'll throw my two pennies in.

Here is my version:
Mor models GS-6 with Deluxe Innovations 1940 AAR cars.




Thanks,
Wolf

[Skeebo]

A War Baby and weathered cars. I LIKE IT! I have to weather my cars up some. Here is my 1950's era CME/W at the dawn of the TOFC era behind another of my many MT's. F units are just a year or two away...........

While the Micro Trains caboose is not correct, its so close that with just a slight mod to the cupola, most people can't tell.

[JMaurer1]

One wrong click and 30 minutes of typing is gone...take two:

Coast Merchandise West and Coast Merchandise East were the official names and symbols (CME and CMW) for Southern Pacific's Bay Area-Los Angeles lcl trains. The S.P. inaugurated the LCL service in October 1935, between San Francisco and Los Angeles, SF/Oak-Portland, and LA-Phoenix. As express service cars, they were  strictly city-to-city LCL service, no unloading at stations in transit.The original cars were rebuilt from single sheathed wood boxcars with the wood sheathing replaced by steel (Class B-50-15/16 cars). In addition to the steel sheathing, they were given steel high speed wheels (instead of cast wheels) and steam lines. The cars had a variety of doors, roofs and ends but the paint was all black with an orange band around the perimeter of the car and door (Daylight orange). They ran as sections of regularly scheduled passenger trains and at near-passenger train speeds or better, rating fast Mt-class 4-8-2's or GS-class 4-8-4's. Officially this service ended at the start of WWII. Sunrise (now Westerfield) offered kits of these cars in HO:



The trains were reestablished in 1946 and given their own schedules as First Class Trains #373 and 374. For their entire careers, they often ran as a section of the "Lark". The new black paint scheme was implemented on approx 150 of the B-50-15 and 16 in 1948 to fill the need while new boxcars were built. These cars didn't last long and were quickly phased out once the new B-50-24 started arriving.





After the end of WWII, Southern Pacific ordered 500 Class B-50-24, 50-ton boxcars from Mt. Vernon Car Company between July and September, 1946. The first 450 were painted black for Overnight LCL service and the remaining 50 painted in dark green passenger color or the two toned grey Lark paint to operate as head-end baggage-express cars in passenger service. Original Series numbers were 97620-98069, and for the passenger service, Series 5700-5749. The most noticeable features were a new improved 3 over 4 dreadnaught end, and thinner side sheeting requiring an alternate center rivet design, although not evenly spaced like the UP and SSW, and improved light weight Youngstown 6 ft doors. The train frequently handled LCL and fresh fruit.
The CME/CMW were also known as The Zipper. In diesel years, "The Zipper" got solid sets of F7's, SD9's, RSD12's and RSD15's.

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/sp-b-50-24main.html

After TOFC service was introduced in 1953 the assigned box cars began receiving a solid silver paint job with black and red lettering that included the word "Overnight" in large lettering. 300 of the black cars were repainted silver and renumbered into Series 163049-163348. The remaining cars were also painted silver but renumbered into their reserved General Service numbers within Series 121834-122311, and 133000-133018.





To coincide with the start of TOFC service, SP repainted a small group of cupola (C-40-3) cabooses for assigned service on these trains. The following are known to have been so painted: 1031, 1069, 1076, 1096, 1097, 1147, 1181 and 1201. They would eventually be replaced with bay window cabooses from the regular caboose pool, a few of which had "Trailer-On-Flat-Car Service" (but still painted in BCR) stenciled on their sides.

For a complete understanding of these cars and their history, consult Tony Thompson’s excellent series on SP Freight Cars, Vol 4, pages 281-297

[SP-Wolf]

@JMaurer1  -
Outstanding essay, Jeff!!

Thanks,
Wolf

[babbo_enzo]

@JMaurer1  -
Good and complete summary, Jeff!!
I've never noted the pre-WWII Dayligth frames color ... good to know!

[JMaurer1]

Thanks!

I just wish that there was a B-50-15/16 type car (as I recall, I started bashing one from an old Bachmann OB box) and, more importantly, decals for the original orange cars. They would be very interesting to see running at a show...

[Mike Madonna]

Jeff,

Very thorough!

[Spacecraftcreator]

Thank you all for the great postings...... I am learning more about the Overnights than I originally thought.....it all is very helpful and very much appreciated. Now it looks like I will have to create an additional 3 consists for my new N layout instead of just 1....now more research, modeling....

Bob

[JMaurer1]

LMK if you come up with a suitable car for the B-50-15/16 cars. I had modified a Bachmann car and removed the wood boards, but the car just seemed way to wide so I gave up on it .