How to beef up an Atlas C55 curved turnout?

[PiperguyUMD]

Good morning all! If I remember correctly, there has been a lot of discussion here regarding the Atlas C55 curved turnouts. I'm about to plant one on the mainline of one of my Freemo-N modules and want to get some input on making sure that it operates reliably. First off, It will serve a seldom used spur, and therefore should see only occasional use. Second I plan to control it with a tortoise switch machine, and solider feeder wires directly to the frog instead of using the flimsy built in feeder. Hopefully that will minimize any issues. Are there any other things that I'm overlooking?

Smooth operation on the mainline is my biggest concern, if that means that the coal dock at the end of the siding is unusable I can live with that.

Thanks for the help!

[ednadolski]

If switching is not really a concern, then for probably about the same effort you could hand-build a turnout with non-moving points permanently set to the mainline route.  You could even make it look like a sprung frog, so that the flangeways could be built to relaxed tolerances without compromising operation.

Alternately, you could just make it a thru track instead of a turnout, built on top of switch ties, and make it look like the railroad abandoned the siding at that point.  (not something that you see modeled every day)

just my $0.02

Ed

[ednadolski]

Something like this, there are lots of variations, but you get the idea.

[davefoxx]

Good morning all! If I remember correctly, there has been a lot of discussion here regarding the Atlas C55 curved turnouts. I'm about to plant one on the mainline of one of my Freemo-N modules and want to get some input on making sure that it operates reliably. First off, It will serve a seldom used spur, and therefore should see only occasional use. Second I plan to control it with a tortoise switch machine, and solider feeder wires directly to the frog instead of using the flimsy built in feeder. Hopefully that will minimize any issues. Are there any other things that I'm overlooking?

Smooth operation on the mainline is my biggest concern, if that means that the coal dock at the end of the siding is unusable I can live with that.

Thanks for the help!

@PiperguyUMD,

My experience with those curved turnouts did not go well, but, admittedly, that was ten years ago.  Hopefully, the issues have been addressed.  But, as a result, I learned how to handlay N scale turnouts.

Anyhow, the two largest issues then were (1) gauge and (2) blunt points.  So, take the turnout that you have and, before you install it, double check the gauge throughout the turnout with an NMRA gauge.  Also, if necessary, file the points to a sharp point, so that they engage the stock rails well and you do not feel any spots where a wheel can pick the point.  If you address these issues, if they still exist, you will probably have a turnout that functions well.

Finally, I do not anticipate any issues with using a Tortoise with any Atlas Code 55 turnout.

Hope this helps,
DFF

[thomasjmdavis]

Note to track manufacturers:
Given that I have a few 40+ year old Shinohara N scale switches (admittedly, code 70 and straight turnouts, but I imagine their curved turnouts were just as reliable) that operate flawlessly after 40 years and 4 layouts and 8 moves, it bothers me that we still have conversations like this.

I would go with @davefoxx advice.  Note his instruction to file the points prior to installation.  On my last layout, I made the mistake of trying to adjust an installed turnout, and apparently do to the soft surface underneath (I was experimenting with WS foam roadbed), I got just enough weight/leverage in the wrong direction while filing, and ended up making a mess out of the switch.  Fortunately, it was a straight track section, so I had the option to replace it with a Micro Engineering switch (with minor track realignment for the different frog), which I did, and plopped a building down so the difference in tie spacing wasn't obvious to the casual viewer- but AFAIK there is no ME curved turnout.

[Dave V]

Note to track manufacturers:
Given that I have a few 40+ year old Shinohara N scale switches (admittedly, code 70 and straight turnouts, but I imagine their curved turnouts were just as reliable) that operate flawlessly after 40 years and 4 layouts and 8 moves, it bothers me that we still have conversations like this.

I've been happy with brand new Peco and Micro Engineering as well, both in N scale and HOn3 (Peco HOn3 turnouts are amazing BTW).  But the Atlas code 55 turnouts...sigh.  Any number of things are wrong with them from the metal itself to the assembly to the gauge and to the design (those little spike heads are all that stand between you and a pile of parts).  I regretted every single one I installed.  Others have had success, but many of us have had similar experiences.  For me it seemed even when I powered the frogs, the frogs would die.  I learned not to trust that little wiring tab for the frog they stick at the end of the tie, but soldering directly to the frog can also be iffy because that metal is...I don't know what.

I think about how Atlas helped pioneer the entire concept of ready-to-use track.  My first layout was Atlas code 100 snap-track (HO of course) and by gosh it was bulletproof.  The N scale code 55 looks so beautiful and has such an incredible selection of components...but the turnouts are the weak link.  One way around that is to use Micro Engineering turnouts with Atlas flex and sectional, but you're pretty stuck with #6s and no curved turnouts.

As others have said, for your application it may well be worth the investment in a Fast Tracks jig and handlaying that bad boy.  As a bonus there's no hinge to fail on the point rails with a handlaid turnout.

[John]

I have almost exclusively Atlas C55 turnouts on the layout for almost 20 years now (over 50) .. and some still in the box .. If I were to ever start over, I would probably hand lay them .. for all the reasons Dave mentioned above .. what we need is some Nickel Silver replacement frogs that can just drop in (cast would be great, but the melting point is almost 1900F) ... personally, I'm going to see if I can manufacture some new frogs for the #10s and the curved TOs, since they are just awful looking .. and while I'm at it, will probably manufacture new closure rails as well ..

[PiperguyUMD]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I would like to be able to use the it on the rare occasion I'd feel the urge to spot a hopper, so I think I'll try to make it operable, but if reliability proves an issue, I'll permanently set it for the mainline.

After fiddling with the thing this morning, the throw bar is amazingly flimsy, I think I'll add replacing it with a PCB tie to the list of improvements.

I did just get a Fast Tracks jig for straight No. 8 turnouts elsewhere, I dunno if I have the skills to hand lay a curved turnout with out jigs. If all else fails maybe I'll give it a shot down the road.

[C855B]

... But the Atlas code 55 turnouts...sigh.  Any number of things are wrong with them from the metal itself to the assembly to the gauge and to the design (those little spike heads are all that stand between you and a pile of parts).  I regretted every single one I installed.  Others have had success, but many of us have had similar experiences.  For me it seemed even when I powered the frogs, the frogs would die.  I learned not to trust that little wiring tab for the frog they stick at the end of the tie, but soldering directly to the frog can also be iffy because that metal is...I don't know what. ...

It's not just the frog. As much as it seems I swear by the Atlas turnouts, with 75 installed so far I have - frankly - a ~15% failure rate. Most of my rejects have been the similar tabs connecting the stock rails past the frog, and this is with fresh-out-of-the-package product. I have a solution now where I check continuity with a multimeter, determine which end of the internal jumper is bad, and then drill through the jumper to the rail. Then I take a needle-tip 15W soldering iron and push a little solder into the resulting hole. A couple of minutes of prep per turnout sure beats tossing an $18 track component into the trash, and then after it's been installed!

The problem as I see it is the design relies on slight pressure contact only, between the brass jumpers embedded in the plastic casting and the nickel-silver rail (or mystery-metal frog) held down by the spikes you mention. Lots of opportunity there for oxidation, etc., to interfere with conductivity.

Have also seen rail creep shorting the rails past the frog to the frog. Quick hit with a Dedeco 0.015" cutoff wheel takes care of that.

Early in the game I was having trouble with the tiny spring washers underneath the points hinges falling off. Haven't seen that in years, but was fixing those with a hunk of brass tubing as a tool to press a washer back on, or more firmly reseated if still extant. I keep a stash of washers on hand recovered from the several unfixable (including ones I've screwed up) turnouts.

... After fiddling with the thing this morning, the throw bar is amazingly flimsy, I think I'll add replacing it with a PCB tie to the list of improvements. ...

Maybe I can save you some time here - the mystery metal the points are cast from is very difficult (if not impossible!) to solder to. If you're going to try it, use flux! Also, don't ignore that the stock throwbar hinges to the points rails, the looseness is from the poor tolerances to facilitate the hinging action.

As an alternative, I tried @Mark W 's technique of replacing points rails up to the frog without success. While points forming (Fast Tracks jig) was no problem, I was vexed by the PCB throwbar - I simply could not prevent solder build-up on the throwbar joint from interfering with closure. If I filed it, it removed too much solder and the joint would fail. I plan to try again with some tweaks to the technique, but there are currently too many other projects with higher priority in the way.

[mmagliaro]

I think all the important items have been covered, but not quite.

File points - definitely

Check the gauge through all the rails with an NMRA gauge.  YES.  And this can be harder than it sounds.
You will likely find narrow spots through the point rails.  The only recourse is to carefully, relentlessly, file the insides of the rails to make the gauge correct.  This is tedious, but is sure a lot easier BEFORE you install the turnout.  Make sure you brace behind the rail you are filing before you file, or the rails can bend, the little plastic rail cleats that hold the rails in place can break off the ties, or you can kink the rail pieces.

Don't trust ANY of the phosphor bronze jumpers underneath the turnout.  I've had a ton of trouble with rails going bad because of those useless things, and not just the frog or moving rails.   I just cut them out of there with nippers from underneath, filed a clean spot on the rail and soldered wire replacements in there.  You will have to make little grooved in the underside of the ties as passageways for the wires.

I soldered fine wires to the point rails and soldered them to their respective fixed rails so I didn't have to rely on the hinge, which is a common failure point.  You CAN solder to the point rails, but it's tricky.  I use a pin vise to actually drill a #61 hole into the bottom/underside of the rail.  That burrows through the plating into the copper inside.  Put a drop of flux there, put the wire in the hole, hit it with the point of a solder iron and some solder, and the solder will fill and bond well to the metal down inside the hole.  You need to be quick and neat to get a fine wire soldered to that point rail without damaging the plastic around it from underneath.

YES... the drawbar.  A real nuisance.  I did not replace it on my curved turnout and I regret that.  I have had to shim under it to keep it fully supported to it slides back and forth and doesn't let the rails dip.


Here's a pic of wiring mods under an Atlas #7, but the idea is the same on the curved.  On this one, I  put a PC reenforcement under the original drawbar.  Also note the grooves filed in the plastic ties where the bare copper jumpers are running.  It's not very pretty from this side, but is not visible from the top, and it works.

[ednadolski]

... I dunno if I have the skills to hand lay a curved turnout with out jigs ....

Of course you do.   As they say, it ain't rocket science, the only thing needed is a desire to learn.

Ed

[GaryHinshaw]

Rocket science is overrated.

[ednadolski]

Rocket science is overrated.

But interesting....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjKgIa_hIPtAhXEGc0KHdOvCHgQFjAAegQISRAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.springer.com%2Fcontent%2Fpdf%2Fbfm%253A978-0-387-09630-8%252F1.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0XV20lOE1VZK2xZ8kpWkWc

[CRL]

You know... PECO makes curved turnouts in code 55. 

[peteski]

The Atlas c55 frogs (also points and guard rails) appear to be cast from Zamak, or similar white metal. Then they are electroplated with copper, then some other harder silver-looking metal which actually might be nickel silver.  That should be easy to solder. If not, gently grind through the top coating until you see copper, then solder to copper.